this post was submitted on 24 May 2026
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The reason the FCC is only allowing the sale of state approved routers in the US?

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[–] RegularJoe@lemmy.world 131 points 2 days ago (3 children)

"This technology turns every router into a potential means for surveillance," warns Julian Todt from KASTEL. "If you regularly pass by a café that operates a WiFi network, you could be identified there without noticing it and be recognized later -- for example by public authorities or companies."

Later...

Inexpensive or older routers either don’t store history at all or keep it for a short time.

Newer models can store more information for more extended periods.

https://www.thetechwire.com/how-long-does-a-router-store-history/

[–] morto@piefed.social 78 points 2 days ago (4 children)

We used to recommend people to run the newest stuff possible, but we came to a point that maybe it's better for us to keep with older tech for a good while

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 34 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

From what I've just read, the tech doesn't seem ready to identify people yet. It can supposedly detect hand gestures, but facial recognition I seriously doubt. But that's probably just a matter of improving the tech. See this article for more info.

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[–] Clbull@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

At this point I'd prefer the Chinese routers.

[–] Salamanderwizard@lemmy.world 101 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Have fun watching me be balls deep in my partner, fed boys. Be jelly cause you can't fuck like me.

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[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 88 points 2 days ago (10 children)

It would be great if there were some open source tool kits for this. If the technology is going to exist it should be in the hands of the people.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yeah, if this shit has to exist, at least let me use it for presence detection in Home Assistant without having to buy separate sensors or something!

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[–] solidheron@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

I know satellites can make out cities not even the visible spectrum satellites.

Now that I think about it there are lots of wireless devices. If you have a living room TV you could block that. Obvious mesh network nodes can have their signal blocked. Also your phone can move closer too and further away from wireless router

Yeah I could see it if you have enough data you could at least check node proximity, but floor plan mapping might be different

[–] BeUnique@lemmy.zip 28 points 2 days ago (3 children)

That's cool and all but if true, why use an animated photo instead of a real life example?

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 14 points 2 days ago

a real life example? you mean like a photo of a person next to a router?

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[–] NoodlePoint@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Don't give fucking Peter ideas, it's making the bastard horny.

[–] RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip 46 points 2 days ago (10 children)

Product idea: clothing with jaged edges and radio absorbing plates.

[–] ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)
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[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Funnily enough, indoors, this would probably make you more visible as the only area with no reflections. Stealth works outdoors because the sky does not have a radar return.

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[–] sirico@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago

So why am I using pir and near nfd's

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

Pretty sure this is old news? It's basically sonar, which The Dark Knight predicted in the film.

Edit: a word

[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 59 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (11 children)

From what I've read this is built into the required wifi router for Xfinity. I discovered this when I signed up for Xfinity fiber, had the fiber installed and setup and then cancelled it the same day, because of this and not being able to buy and run my own hardware, and needing to install an app on my phone to manage the router, and apparently not being able to choose my DNS. They required that I rent their hardware for an additional $15/mo. Oh well, at least fiber is in the house now, if anyone wants it in the future. I sure won't be paying them to spy on me.

Fuck Comcast, still.

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 40 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Very interesting concept. I was curious about how in the hell this could be done. This article explains the general method.

When an inert object like a person moves around between the router and stationary connected devices like computers and printers, it interferes with the signal. The pattern of interference plus math can be used to plot the movement of the object - and even measure subtle changes like hand gestures. Home security software from companies like Xfinity can already use this tech to send you an alert when something is moving around in your house, without needing additional hardware. Imagine an informercial where a guy holds up a handful of "clumsy motion sensors" with wires sticking out of them, and "confusing instructions". Not if you just let your router do it!

As far as being a new and sinister means of surveillance, evil companies could already theoretically tap into anybody's motion sensors or security cams. The difference with WiFi tracking is that you wouldn't necessarily know it's there.

[–] fleck@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (8 children)

That's using CSI though. The article said the researches specifically did not utilize CSI.

But regarding CSI: I evaluated that as a small part of my Master's thesis and it worked pretty OK for motion detection but not for classifying other activities, at least not on a SISO link. For more complex stuff you would need both a MIMO access point (router) and device (e.g. phone). Also, you need to constantly transmit messages to get up-to-date CSI, which is not great for power consumption as well as cluttering the communication channel. There are some other constraints, especially regarding noise. E.g. I managed to completely destroy the CSI spectrogram by turning on a microwave oven. There is 802.11bf in development, which is supposed to standardize this, because currently using CSI is pretty much a "hack", as it is not intended for sensing. Once this is widely adopted, I would start being worried, but not right now.

This is from my thesis:

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's not too different from what I can tell. They seem to just exploit the fact that beamforming information (BFI) is transmitted back to the access point. BFI is ultimately not so different from CSI. What they exploit is that they can just listen in and intercept the BSI without access to the AP.

[–] fleck@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Interesting. I didn't actually read into BFI details, thank you

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[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"Identify" seems like a very misleading word in this context. Isn't it just detecting and locating? Or am I misunderstanding and they can tell me and my roommate appart?

[–] HuePony@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago

Height and body mass

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