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The unsatisfying answer: you're both a little bit right.
You're correct that times have changed somewhat. But I think it's overkill to say that "approaching women at all unless you have business with them is disrespectful and borderline harassment".
Of course, context matters a lot. Don't bother women at their jobs, the bank is not a lady zoo. But in a social situation where you would expect to meet other people, it's fine to strike up a conversation with strangers or even ask them out.
However, by your own admission you don't get out much. So I'm assuming you don't get a lot of situations like bars or parties where this would happen. So I would try networking in your community, develop some hobbies, go to functions where you might meet someone in this manner.
Also, if you're ugly or poor, it's always unwanted and disrespectful. Whether or not you're ugly or even poor is up to them not you, so you have no way to ever know beforehand.
Women in general have made this so fucking difficult for men that it really should be mandatory for them to approach us at this point just to avoid issues.
I'm married, but worried about my sons getting in trouble for ever trying to approach a woman outside of a bar at this point, it seems the only place where asking a girl out randomly is still allowed at this point.
I do want to be sympathetic, but I have to be honest in that this seems like incel rhetoric to me.
Women are under no obligation to accept the advances of any random person in public, and framing that as a "them" problem is super disrespectful.
Nobody said they have to accept the advances. I'm saying that by restricting those advances in general, it should put the onus on women to make the advance. They can't ask men to stop asking everywhere, then complain or be confused when men aren't asking them out and this is something that is actively happening right now.
I've never heard a woman complain or be confused about not being asked out by strangers.
It seems like your sources are a fair step into the manosphere, and you and your sons would have a lot to gain by distancing yourself from that kind of influence. Nothing is as unattractive as bitterness, and you are sounding dangerously close to bitter here, and your attitude will influence your sons approach to life and relationships.
It’s been showing up on YouTube a lot in my feed all of a sudden. Like, past two weeks… some blonde lady men’s advocate trying to explain male behavior to women. She’s an interesting watch, seems more often correct than not (anecdotally).
There was a woman actually complaining about not getting cat-called anymore too. That one was a jaw dropper; but people like that are absolutely out there.
The Dadvocate? Sounds like the YouTuber you’re describing.
Emily W. King.
Ah her. She has a bad habit of doing react videos that are just her posting other people’s content while she just makes faces and nods at it and doesn’t add any meaningful commentary. I personally think that’s a shitty kind of content creator as they’re ultimately making money off of someone else’s work. And she occasionally has had a pretty bad take. I think The Dadvocate is much better in this particular genre of content personally.
I wonder why it's showing up all of a sudden either way though. I must have watched something that brought this in. It's not something I've really paid much attention to but something caught my attention with one of the videos.
Yeah, they started showing up for my (male) partner a while back. I got really nervous that they were going to be the start of a slippery slope into some serious misogynistic content, and I’ve been monitoring that for probably a year now. Thankfully that doesn’t seem to have been the case so far!
There are many women out there who have gone so far as to be on the misandry side of things, and at least the two content creators we’ve named are calling that out. It’s valid and many of their points are solid. But it still seems like the algorithm would use them as a first step towards misogynistic content so it’s had me a little on edge.
Yep! That's exactly where I'm coming from. The type of content I've been watching recently has naturally shifted a little bit. For a long time, I didn't use YouTube at all, but during Covid I found out that comic book collectors had a community on YouTube, and for the most part really only watched comic book related videos and fish-keeping / aquascape videos for about 4 years. Recently, (100% out of boredom) I started going back to the gym and have been watching various workout and nutritional videos instead of the comic book stuff that I watched for so long. I still watch videos about fishkeeping and aquascaping. I also watch Neil DeGrasse Tyson's channel maybe once a month if I get tired of fish, nutrition and workout videos. I recently also came across a channel called "The Why Files" that I enjoy. The content from this channel is pretty similar to Ancient Aliens IMO.
Somewhere in that mix of aquarium fish, trying to be healthier, physics and historical conspiracy content, YouTube decided to inject Emily W. King. I don't get it.
Yeah… definitely could be the slippery slope we both see. Especially since comics and gym/workout/nutrition type videos likely target a more male demographic.
I mentioned my partner got those, then he actually subscribed to The Dadvocate. Now that I’m thinking about it I think he’s mentioned occasionally seeing Jordan Peterson pop up in his Shorts feed when he watches a ton in a row. He gives them a thumbs down and says not to show him that content, so maybe he’s the one keeping the worse content at bay.
The worst thing though is that when those do pop up in his feed, they are some of Peterson’s few normal or even good takes (which we hate to admit that anything Jordan Peterson has to say might be good. But even a broken clock…). My partner still shuts that shit down because he knows there isn’t a good ending to that path.
You're using anecdotal data, I have actually heard a woman say "why won't he just ask me out" and that isn't useful data either.
It keeps coming up in dating studies though, which are useful, and frequently point out that women are complaining or confused about why it's happening.
I think you will find that "why won't he just ask me out" is not said about total strangers on the bus etc.
Why is Jackson Lamb arguing for anything nuanced or subtle?
I dunno, this may just be my own sensibilities clouding reality, but I don't think the "onus" should be on anyone.
Men are more and more frequently getting in trouble for even just asking, which means they need to stop entirely or risk getting in trouble.
Either women take responsibility for asking the men out, or accept that they're not going to get asked out except by assholes who ignore the risks and are statistically upsetting a lot of women before they succeed.