this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 34 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (26 children)

But in the US it is a cultural thing. Like Italian-Americans have a different culture from other Americans and from current day Italians. The US is a big place, with many different cultures and people like Europe. It's like if I said to you that you are European so stop calling yourself Dutch.

[–] sykaster@feddit.nl 27 points 8 months ago (12 children)

Your comparison between "European vs Dutch" and "American vs Irish-American" is fundamentally flawed.

Nationality vs ancestry are different concepts. Dutch is my current nationality, defined by citizenship, language, culture, and shared social experience. Being "Dutch-Norwegian" would mean I hold dual citizenship or were raised in both cultural contexts simultaneously. Most Americans claiming to be "Irish-American" have no citizenship, language fluency, or authentic cultural immersion in Ireland.

The cultural disconnect is stark. What Americans call "Italian-American culture" has diverged dramatically from actual Italian culture over generations. It's become a distinctly American phenomenon with superficial cultural markers rather than authentic representation. When Irish-Americans visit Ireland, locals often view them as simply American tourists because the cultural gap is so evident.

With each generation, the cultural connection weakens substantially. By the third or fourth generation, what remains is often reduced to stereotypical elements like celebrating St. Patrick's Day or eating pasta on Sundays. This selective cultural picking isn't equivalent to genuine cultural identity.

European identity framework differs fundamentally. In Europe, identity is primarily based on where you were born and raised, your language, and your lived experience – not distant ancestry.

Many Americans who claim hyphenated identities have minimal knowledge of their ancestral country's modern culture, politics, or social realities. They cling to outdated or stereotypical notions that no longer reflect the actual country.

Comparing a continental identity (European) to a national one (Dutch) is not the same as comparing a national identity (American) to a hyphenated ancestral one (Irish-American). The Netherlands exists within Europe; "Irish-American" does not represent a legitimate political or cultural subset of America in the same way.

[–] half_fiction@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 8 months ago (9 children)

The level of authority that you're speaking with about another country's culture while clearly only having a surface-level understanding is actually wild. Maybe accept that the Americans who are telling you otherwise have more knowledge and understanding of their own culture.

[–] rishado@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

They actually seem to be quite educated on the topic. Unlike yourself who seems to think that you'd have authority to speak on this issue because you have a certain passport? It's really not that wild. I moved here as a first generation immigrant about 10 years ago & I pretty much concur what they are saying. Irish and American Italians in Boston and NJ respectively feel that they have more in common with their 'home' countrymen than fellow Americans, just one example. Personally I think there's also an aspect of "oh I'm not just white, I'm actually 1/8 Irish". Mind you that's not what I think at all, why would I have a bias against you if you are white? But it's almost like I'm asked to view them as more than "white American" when people tell me that stuff after I tell them where I'm from. You can imagine what their answers typically were when I asked about whether they often go back to visit family/home or foods they cook. It's just ancestry, they have no actual ties to those lands.

One thing I will say though is that whenever I'd talk about this kind of thing is that people get weirdly defensive about it. Overall I learned just to let them say what they want to say, it's not worth my energy trying to understand their mental gymnastics as to why they're actually as Irish as I am Egyptian. They're not ready or willing to have that conversation.

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