this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2025

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712

It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes (defector.com)

submitted 1 week ago by tux0r@feddit.org to c/technology@lemmy.world

100 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Money quote:

Excel requires some skill to use (to the point where high-level Excel is a competitive sport), and AI is mostly an exercise in deskilling its users and humanity at large.

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[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 138 points 1 week ago (31 children)

There are things that could be done to improve Excel. For instance, fully integrate python and allow it to be used to create custom functions. Then, maybe one day, VBA can ride off into the sunset where it belongs.

Adding Copilot to Excel is not an improvement because Copilot and all other LLM based platforms frequently barfs out totally incorrect information about how to do something in Excel.

"You do that using formula."

No, I can't, you worthless pile of shit because THAT FORMULA DOESNT EXIST.

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 66 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Integrated python scripts in excel sounds like a malware developers dream.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago (2 children)

And a nightmare for an application developer told to make some app with a spreadsheet for a database scale

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 48 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Could result in some very cursed codebases.

"We dont use git, we just update the excel spreadsheet"

[–] Gork@sopuli.xyz 32 points 1 week ago

I've worked at places where they did that anyway lol

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's just called Access

[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is that creepy thing still alive?

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It can't be ... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I remember making fun of Access on StackOverflow circa 2008 and running afoul of some dude there who was like the last living Access consultant on Earth. I've never encountered defensive rage like that before or since.

Fun Access fact, the Diebold-manufactured voting machines that featured prominently in the 2000 presidential election cycle used an Access database as their underlying data storage mechanism. Access DBs did incorporate an audit table - which was manually-editable.

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[–] turkalino@lemmy.yachts 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Surely there’s some sort of sandboxing that could be done? Like start by disallowing sys calls entirely

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 8 points 1 week ago

Definitely, but sandboxes can be escaped, and you can't protect everything via sandbox. Apparently its all cloud anyway, but if it were local and sandboxed, there are still exploits like rowhammer and spectre that may cause further risks.

Its taken years to get browser sandboxes to where they are, and even they get broken every so often.

[–] rollerbang@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I mean... Yeah, but the same can be said for VB?

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Especially since VBA can make calls to the Windows API directly and through that avenue do all kinds of funky things to your system.

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[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Fair point. Of course that's already a problem with Excel. It would probably have to be disabled by default just like VBA macros.

[–] elvith@feddit.org 9 points 1 week ago (5 children)

They foresaw that. That's because python on Excel doesn't run locally, but in the cloud and then returns the result to you: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/introduction-to-python-in-excel-55643c2e-ff56-4168-b1ce-9428c8308545

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Still sounds like you'd be shipping your data to the cloud, where it can be exfilled from there.

Would potentially be a great phishing tool, just need to trick someone into putting sensitive data into a precooked excel file, and it gets exfilled.

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[–] magikmw@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago

That's even worse!

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[–] Honytawk@feddit.nl 67 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Why would anyone use an LLM as calculator?

That just doesn't make sense.

It is like using a calculator as typewriter because it can spell 80085.

[–] Rambomst@lemmy.world 39 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

So what you are saying is, my car is a typewriter?

[–] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Microsoft might agree with this.

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I did this with my car when I got to that point and sent it to my girlfriend, but I photoshopped it so it said I was going over 100. Anyway I thought it was funny.

[–] Rambomst@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I was in the car with my missus, every 2 seconds she was making sure I hadn't missed the big moment. She's a good egg.

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[–] tux0r@feddit.org 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Heh heh 80085

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 6 points 1 week ago

High brow humour indeed

[–] jim3692@discuss.online 4 points 1 week ago

To waste electric energy. All those power plants produce immense amounts of energy that needs to be consumed. If we didn't have LLMs, the pollution of those plants would be for nothing. At least now, there is an attempt to put it in good use.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago

There's an old story about the lead developer at Texas Instruments saying "I want a computer that fits in my pocket". And then his staff dutifully measured the pocket to spec before proceeding to perform a feat of miniaturization that would revolutionize the modern world.

I'm trying to imagine one of the techies, from way out in the back, saying "Does it have to get the right answer?" Then getting fired, walking off the job, and walking into Microsoft with 10x the salary the next day.

[–] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago

Our very own economic Butlerian jihad.

[–] Limonene@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Give Microsoft some credit! Excel has been able to come up with wrong answers for decades. For example, reporting 1900 as a leap year.

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[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Are you kidding? Microsoft has always been shit at math. According to Microsoft Excel, 2 + 2 = 12:04 AM Jan 1, 1900.

[–] BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Integers are days in Excel, no? So I think 2+2= 12:00 AM Jan 5, 1900.

[–] Alaknar@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

OK, I'm not really mad at this. I already used Copilot to design a table for me in Excel and it worked really well. It did everything for me, and I just had to copy-paste the formulas into their appropriate spots. If it's built-in, possibly will work better.

Not everybody needs to be an Excel expert, after all. Having that functionality might be actually beneficial.

[–] Lightfire228@pawb.social 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

How do you know those formulas are correct?

[–] percent@infosec.pub 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

By verifying that they're correct...? 🤔

[–] theparadox@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

I think the concern is that you can come up with a number of formulas that will get correct answers for some combinations of values and not others.

If you do not understand the logic of the formula, and what each function does, how do you verify they are correct and will always give you the results you think they will? Double check every result in its entirety?

[–] Lightfire228@pawb.social 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's my thinking

If you know what you're doing, it's significantly easier to do it yourself

You at least have some reassurance it's correct (or at least thought through)

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

yes okay dad

[–] Alaknar@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Any time, nutsack.

[–] altphoto@lemmy.today 5 points 1 week ago

I'm a dad and I approve this message.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Wrong, they already had that with Excel. There were a bunch of functions that delivered wrong returns for years, and none of the users (mostly economists) had noticed.

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[–] RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com 4 points 1 week ago

Intel already did that in the 90's with the FDIV bug.

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