No Stupid Questions

Some is valid. Men aren't taught how to make and maintain emotionally open friendships, with men or women. It's seen as weak or weird to cry on front of your bros when you're sad. This leads to loneliness. This is real.

Some is not valid. Men claiming that they're not getting laid and it's women's fault is bullshit. Or that women have impossibly high standards and are gold diggers. It's nonsense.

The problem is that the "women hating incels" have coopted the term, and their garbage deserves to be mocked.

There's basically a lot of modern "feminists" who have decided that two wrongs make a right.

It's good that women feel comfortable expressing themselves and trying to dismantle the patriarchy since it hurts us all. But many of them don't stop there and end up crossing the line into misandry and blind hatred of men.

This results in these "feminists" saying some pretty bigoted shit like "white men can't experience racism and sexism" as well as harassing men for seeking support.

This group mocks the male loneliness epidemic out of spite like other bigot groups.

It's socially acceptable to hate and be biased against men. Especially white men, and especially working-class white men.

It's not so socially acceptable to hate on wealthy white men. The point is you have to become a wealthy white guy, or get bent.

You will also notice the discussion is frame that any man who isn't independently wealthy is a failure at life and undeserving of friendship/love. The advice is always 'get rich and get fit' as if that is the solution to your loneliness. It isn't.

FWIW I never had issue with romance/friends most of my life. But I have had them the past 5 or so years. I'm a middle-class white guy and my social interactions are falling apart. Esp when people find out I don't fit the archetype of 'rich white guy'. I've had so many people be friendly to me and then they find out I don't own a home/drive expensive car/etc and they immediately stop interacting with me, because all they want from me is money. I've also been accuse of various forms of bigotry more in the past few years when previously I never dealt with that ever in my life.

I think it's mostly just the ill-affects of social media and people's warped expectations. I know a lot of people living good lives... men and women both, but they always depressed and angry because they aren't millionaires. And frankly I find that attitude alienating and it also makes me want to isolate, since so much of what new people I meet talk about is their anger at not being wealthy. And if you ever question this or suggest maybe life isn't so bad? Well you're clearly a bigoted proto Nazi...

It wasn't like this 5-10 years ago. I feel like I got my first taste of 'men are awful' social media fueled BS in the 2010s. Now it feels like that's just he default belief of most people. It's really hard for me to find a lady romantic or unromantic, who just wants to constantly shit on men generally. And to find men who also don't shit on other men. And everyone where i live is in this weird scramble to distance themselves from whiteness and masculinity.

For me, I am feeling less and less lonely the more I am alone. Mostly because my perspective isn't the same as most people's. I am very happy and comfortable and appreciative and that doesn't vibe in a world full of very bitter people who think if you don't subscribe to theri flavor of bitterness, you're a traitor. I recently bailed on some of my volunteer/community orgs because they have been consumed by judgemental nasty people and they were making me depressed being around people who just want to be miserable and pissy all the time and blame white men for their own personal failings. My favorite is the gender-skeptical types working in low-wage jobs and being angry at 'white men' for preventing them from having stable jobs... but the truth is these people are totally unreliable and would be horrible at professional work. They are their own worst enemy.

When people have created a narrative that "white x y z men" are responsible for all the evil in the world (I'm exagerating, but you get my drift), it creates a very difficult situation when those people are facing some serious difficulties. The intellectually lazy thing to do in that case is to brush it off or minimize it, like in the ways you've described. And unfortunately, that's the route those same people will take, since identity politics are intellectually lazy (and lacking compassion, but that's another story).

The unfortunate part of it is that the right has taken advantage of that wide open flank, which is one main reasons we're in this current clusterfuck.

Cis man here.

It's an issue. It comes in lots of different colors and flavors but it all stems from social issues.

There's lots of reasons, some men were never taught about social relationships, men tend to generally be less interested in social interaction thus giving them less experience, some men are ostracized when talking about their social struggles, and these are on top of preexisting environmental factors and preexisting mental conditions.

At this point it's important to say: it's not a contest for genders. Trans people have it hard, nb people have it hard women have it hard. It's just that this is one of the rare times men's struggles are not addressed properly.

I can tell you I probably have about 50 men in my life that I ko and wo are nice but if I had to talk to a man about my struggles socially, there are 2 men.

Now couple this with the fact 90% of men I had deeper conversations with told me they are struggling with depression and some of them having suicidal ideations, it is fair to assume we have a problem.

For me, the depression is always exacerbated by social isolation. It makes sense - not getting some feedback from other people can get you into crazy headspaces and there are thinking patterms that literally make you hurt yourself just to make it stop.

There's another aspect: we are social creatures and as soon as you don't get enough "social exposure" it's harder to learn social cues and "get the vibe", and other people notice. So the more you isolate, the harder preceding social interaction become and the harder it is, which in turn incentivizes isolating. A vicious cycle.

Now not everyone has these issues and I would never say that it's the most important issue in our current society but every time I hear suicide statistics by gender it really puts into perspective that we should get to know those people who we have failed.

One thing I also wanna address is the idea that "men are never taught how to socialize", because I think it implies a lot of things. First, I'm sure a lot of men are not, but a good number of men are. I was for example. It didn't help, but that was never the issue for me. Second, it implies men want to be taught. I spoke to a group of 2 men and 2 women with mental disabilities about if they ever considered complete social isolation. The men said yes and the women said no. I think this is really significant and can give insight into why this is affecting men more than other genders. I would infer from this that women always see the benefit in social interaction, and men pursue social interactions rather as a means to an end. This might be a stretch but this supported by other observations of friends and family.

This topic is really important and I hope it gets talked about more - for the benefit of everyone who wants to see people become happier. The men affected by loneliness, as well as the people who deal with them.

It has very large implications on society, many of which in contradiction with established progressive policy.

So it's easier to ridicule and/or downplay, than to apply compassion, and change course.

Most of the criticism of it I've seen is about how the concept's been warped to mean women aren't putting out enough for specific men. Other people will also point out that modern society is isolating in general. People who aren't men who are experiencing loneliness might have some skepticism about the idea it's a man specific issue.

There's also some wariness because topics about issues men face can translate for some men into a violent rage towards women. As seen with the involuntarily celibate movement.

People of all types can take genuine grievances and find a target to take it out on. Like income inequality translating to hatred of immigrants. And violence towards them. When you're the mistaken target of those grievances, it can be simplest to want to get away from the conversation unless the person starting it is clear they aren't targeting you.

Those are my guesses as to why people are skeptical.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1263527043 Some discussion in here about the topic, but also criticisms of the topic.

https://trinitonian.com/2025/02/14/unpacking-the-myth-of-the-male-loneliness-epidemic/ This opinion article criticizes how influencers drive the conversation, to its detriment.

https://www.fridaythings.com/recent-posts/male-lonliness-crisis-incel-men-friendship-mental-health This person brings up the idea that women are wary of the idea because it seems like they'll be expected to individually solve it regardless of their own wants and needs.