this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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Seems reductive.

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[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Firstly - there is no workable "definition" of fascism that's remotely useful. Not yet, anyway. It probably has something to do with the fact that fascism isn't so much an ideology but more a function within the modern liberal nation state - ie, the people who perform the violent repression for the benefit of the rich elites at the top. Sometimes, the elites become so frightened that they will literally hand the very state over to these people in it's entirety - as happened in Germany and Italy (and other places).

Secondly - these people calling themselves "conservatives" and/or "libertarians" don't actually care much about labels. The fact that they actually call themselves "conservatives" (essentially a dead ideology they wouldn't recognise if it bit them on their behinds) and "libertarians" (a term that originally described anarchist and other libertarian socialists) without having the foggiest clue what those terms really mean is a clue. The only thing they understand is that it's a term they can throw at any people pushing back against their vile (and often fascist or fascist-adjacent) narratives.

That's pretty much it.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Excuse me. If they a re not conservative what are they?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

If they a re not conservative what are they?

What they are in reality is an extremist, fundamentalist and far-right strain of liberal. Liberalism has always really just been the fig-leaf ideology behind which capitalism hides... but these people calling themselves "conservatives" are really just capitalists that don't see the need to bother with a fig-leaf at all. Simply consider the behaviour of people like Trump, Musk and all the other billionaires that barely hide their contempt for the working class. They are not true fascists, but I don't see a problem with people calling them that - they certainly would like to be true fascists but lack the connection to the working class to actually do that like Hitler or Mussolini did. They are just extremely spoilt rich people living in bubbles of privilege... unlike the fascists of old.

Conservatism itself is essentially a dead ideology - the conservatives of Abraham Lincoln's time would sound like radical leftists in comparison to the people using that label today.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Sorry, no

They are authoritarians with boners for the NAZIs. Simply put.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Lol!

Did you actually read what you posted, genius?

Here. I'll make this a bit less confusing for you.

"An economic theory in favour of laizzez-faire, the free market, and the gold standard."

Do tell... which of the two formal political factions in the US is most in favour of allowing billionaire parasites (ie, capitalists) to run everything and using the (so-called) "free market" a justification for that?

The people (honestly) calling themselves "liberals" or the people (falsely) calling themselves "conservatives?"

Read this part real careful like... political conservatism is a dead ideology.

You don't have to believe me - hear it from an actual conservative.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (5 children)

Ha ha!

laizzez-faire! laizzez-faire!

laizzez-faire isn't an exclusive tenant of liberalism you moron.

If youre posting Noah Chomsky youre talking about NEO-CONS.

Its been 10 years since the GOP has unmasked themselves as authoritarians and youre living in a fucking time capsule.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

laizzez-faire isn’t an exclusive tenant of liberalism

Ooooooh... do tell, genius - what other ideology is so blindingly loyal to the capitalist mode of production?

Monarchism, perhaps?

Is there a particular reason you don't want to admit what liberalism is and always have been?

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 14 hours ago (15 children)

Is that what the current iteration of the conservative ideology believes???

Crony capitalism is not laizzez-faire

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah and "Democrat" used to mean you liked slavery. The meaning of words (especially regarding political ideology) shift over time.

These people are conservatives.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

These people are conservatives.

No. They're not.

But if you really wish to continue flattering them, feel free to call them "conservatives" - it informs them that their pretense is still working.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Flattering them??? Conservatism is not some holy religion but if it makes you feel better. What ever.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

You seem very desperate to pretend that there really is a big difference between liberalism and (so-called) "conservatism."

Are you a liberal, perhaps?

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

No, im asking you if fascism isn't the appropriate description of what "conservatives" believe what is it?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 14 hours ago (15 children)

I've already answered that question for you... your reaction suggests you're a liberal that didn't like what they were told.

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

They're conservatives. Regardless of what the word may have used to mean, it means this now. No matter how much people want that to not be true.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 16 hours ago

This whole argument is just cover for "conservatives". Conservatives foamented this party, they adhere to it, its their dogma in full view. They dont get to slip out now and pretend there is 'no true scotsman.'

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[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They don't. They play the victim a lot more ways than that.

For example: you don't go to church. They think "Christian values are under attack." You argue for civil rights. "The right of the White Man is under attack." Shit like that. And they will call you a fascist, a socialist, a communist, everything but what you are, which is a nonconformist, for not doing exactly what they want you to do.

A conservative, by the simplest definition, is one who opposes change for the sake of change. The ideal of "if it's not broke, don't fix it." The problem is, while the system may not be broken for them (WASP), it needs work for people of colour, the LGBTQ+, Palestinians, and more. But they don't want a world that works for the rest of us. They just want to maintain the status quo. A lot of them have much more complicated feelings and opinions than that, but that's basically conservatism in a nutshell. Not extreme. Unfortunately very few conservatives are basic conservatives anymore.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 18 hours ago

which is a nonconformist

Thank you for this, it puts it in terms that make a lot of sense. This really helps explain a phenomenon I see so often. I know a few folks who are certainly not pro-trump, but are very anti-political. I’ve been told that I need to shut up, and things would be fine once the next election rolls around.

These folks might not like what’s happening, but they are fine conforming to it.

Maybe it’s a me problem, but I think it’s going to take a little more work than the bare minimum.

they don't care about the meanings of words, they only care about "winning" the conversation

It's a convenient place to rest the goalposts until they have to snatch them up and run away again.

[–] theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world 49 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Because they genuinely don't know what the definition of fascism is

[–] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 16 points 2 days ago

Or they do, but need to change it because it fits a little too well.

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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago (2 children)

They are by far the least emotionally accessible portion of the US populace. They are also very deliberately ignorant. They really don't know what some of the words represent in full. They are put simply, stupid.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 33 points 2 days ago (2 children)

These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.

You know, morons.

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[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They are genuinely bad with anologies and empathy. That's how they got to be conservative. Everything taken at face value, nothing they haven't experienced is real. Fascists are people named Mussolini. See? This isn't 1930s Italy, so this isn't fascism

[–] bear@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 23 hours ago

It's just sparkling authoritarianism.

[–] BurgerBaron@piefed.social 22 points 2 days ago

Bad faith, nothing they say can be believed at face value, despite that being exactly what mass media trains people to do.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 12 points 2 days ago

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

[–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (5 children)

False question fallacy.

Conservatives don't solely define fascists as "being violent", at least in my country.

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[–] xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Because otherwise they'd really have to struggle with some highly uncomfortable and inconvenient realizations.

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That's a kind way of saying some of them would have an aneurism thinking too hard. /s

[–] xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 7 points 2 days ago

They certainly do not strike me as people overburdened by introspection. Or ethics, decency, conscience and compassion for that matter.

Regrettably, they're just smart enough to have stumbled upon the secret known to all psychopaths and sociopaths: That being an unmitigated asshole can be both liberating and profitable, so long as one can manage to dodge the consequences. It helps if other people - usually referred to as 'victims' - are too civil to apply the FAFO principle.

[–] Zexks@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A core tenant of conservatism is extreme lack of education so....

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[–] devolution@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago

Because the dishonest fucks only engage in bad faith arguments.

[–] 52fighters@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Instead of demonizing a class of person, perhaps you should select someone's writing or speech and then make an argument about something someone actually said. Even better if you turn it into a conversation with two way discourse. Your question just alienates others.

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[–] DreamAccountant@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

They define every single thing as what they need it to mean that day. or hour. or minute. Religions vary wildly from the same religious texts.

There's no overall logic. Just lie as they go along, and see what catches. It's exactly how con-men work.

[–] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 days ago

Because they don't want to admit that they're fascists, so they leave out all the characteristics that would confirm that they are.

[–] Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago

Nah the goalposts move whenever proof is received

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

They didn't become conservatives to understand things...

[–] ileftreddit@piefed.social 5 points 2 days ago

When one party is openly advocating for civil war, and killing their opposition, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT NEED TO BE DEALT VIOLENCE

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