this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2025
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Neat breakdown with data + some code.

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[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 70 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (39 children)

they generate about 3,800kWh per year. We also use about 3,800kWh of electricity each year

Obviously, we can't use all the power produced over summer and we need to buy power in winter. So here's my question: How big a battery would we need in order to be completely self-sufficient?

O, god, it's going to be huge. You really can't do the off-grid thing unless you have enough power production to satiate you over any given 3-day moving window. Trying to store power from summer until winter is going to be too expensive, instead buy more panel.

This isn't even going into the fact batteries lose charge slowly. So any power generated in summer will be much diminished by winter, even if you have big enough batteries.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

Seems to me his panel capacity is to small anyway.
We have 11 kWh panels, and yes in the summer we routinely produce 4 times more than we use, and we have a 7.5 kWh battery But November December and January it's not even close to enough.

In the Winter you can easily have a week with near zero production:
Our Import / export from grid last year:
November 215 / 59 kWh
December 300 15 kWh
January 268 / 34 kWh

Despite we have almost 3 times the capacity, and produce more than twice what we use per year, and we have a decent battery and believe it or not, even the shortest day we can produce enough power for a whole 24 hour day if it's a clear day! But we can also have clouds for 14 days!
But for those months we imported 783 kWh and exported 108 that could have been used with bigger battery. But the net import was still 675 kWh!! For those 3 months, and that's the minimum size battery we could have managed with, and then we even need 10% extra to compensate for charge/discharge losses.

TLDR:
Minimum 740 kWh battery in our case, and that's without heating, because we use wood pellets.

That means it would require at least the equivalent of 10 high end fully electric car batteries. But also a very hefty inverter, which AFAIK ads about 50% the price of the battery.

PS: Already in February we exported more than we imported.

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[–] tal@olio.cafe 13 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (3 children)

What I want to do is find out what the maximum size battery I would need in order to store all of summer's electricity for use in winter.

I mean, I think that it's probably not a good idea for this guy to try to go fully off-grid if he has access to the grid, but for the sake of discussion, if one were honestly wanting to try it and one is in the UK, I'd think that one is probably rather better off adding a wind turbine, since some of the time that the sun isn't shining, the wind is blowing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/322789/quarterly-wind-speed-average-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

Wind speed averages in the United Kingdom are generally highest in the first and fourth quarters of each calendar year – the winter months.

The UK is one of the worst places in the world in terms of solar potential:

https://globalsolaratlas.info/

But it's one of the best in terms of wind potential:

https://globalwindatlas.info/

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 9 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

I could probably get away with putting solar panels on my roof but I think my neighbours would have something to say about a wind turbine. They're pretty loud.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 3 points 16 hours ago

Ugh! Just tell your neighbors to shut up or at least keep it down.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 2 points 17 hours ago

WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF MY NEW WIND TURBINE. YOU SHOULD SEE MY ELECTRIC BILL!

[–] pstils@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago

Right but he’s not serious, he’s just doing a “in theory, what would it look like?”

[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 7 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Small wind turbines are really, really poor. You need to go high to access the good air-streams and wide to get useful efficiency out of the turbine. Any wind turbine you put on your roof will vastly under-perform for the cost spent on it.

[–] tal@olio.cafe 11 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I'd be pretty comfortable saying that buying enough battery storage to power-shift a year of power is more expensive.

[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

O, absolutely. The reality is the only reasonably economic way to do off-grid is with solar, battery, and a diesel or propane generator to top off the batteries when solar isn't cutting it.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 4 points 20 hours ago (6 children)

There is another option. Reduce your energy usage so much that you barely need anything. Cabin in the woods with wifi?

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

That's not really a viable option, you need to be able to wash your clothes, and make your dinner, and cool your food, and have light to see.
Sure it's possible to reduce it, but there is a limit where it becomes extremely inconvenient.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 points 18 hours ago

LEDs use very little power, with the cabin in the woods idea I would think its fairly safe to say a log fire is used for cooking, same thing to heat some water for cleaning. Fridge really doesn't use much power if you look for something energy efficient, or just don't have one. Its not like you can't live without it.

I would have thought saying cabin in the woods kinda implies not having some things and living a simpler lifestyle?

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[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Not true, a wind turbine is dirt cheap for the power it can generate compared to solar panels.
Here the problem is regulation that makes it impossible if you have neighbors within 500 m.
If it wasn't for regulation a wind turbine would be a clearly better investment than solar panels.
A huge advantage with turbines is also that it tend to generate power when you need it the most for heating your house.

[–] freebee@sh.itjust.works 3 points 18 hours ago

That's because they are big mechanical whirring machines. Solar panels are dead quiet and don't throw intermittent shade and have a very low risk of causing damage in the surrounding. There's good reasons they are forbidden for the average household to put on top of the chimney...

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (23 children)

Basically why the grid exists to begin with. You're not supposed to be solving these engineering problems on a household budget inside a single home.

You'd be better off simply reducing your consumption or finding alternative methods of power (nat gas or maybe wind or geothermal) during the longer winter nights.

If you really want to go crazy, you should consider investing in a bigger home with better insulation and roommates. An apartment/condo block can at least leverage economies of scale, if you're dead set on DIY. More people benefiting from the setup dilutes the cost per person.

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