this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] porcoesphino@mander.xyz 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The top comments seem to have a lot of people from the US seem to be ignoring the rest of the world exists and screaming Reagan (the US president from 1981-1989). I honestly don't know how accurate that is but it is obviously not nuanced and probably biased by anti-Trump sentiment

I'm not sure how accurate this article is either but it mentions the salary cap for soccer in England being removed in 1960 and that leading to a rapid increase in wages there.

https://www.salaryleaks.com/blogs/average-salary-premier-league-history

A quick scan of the internet led me to this chart that compares top soccer players to median income in (for some reason) the US

Top international soccer player income compared to median family income for 1901, 1920, 1951, 1957, 1958

From: https://www.expensivity.com/soccer-salary-inflation/

Here's another chart from the same article for how many times a US families income a top international player makes (and like the England article the 60s look to be exponential growth, then noise in the 70s then pretty clear from the 80s):

Timeline of top internal player money proportional to the median US income for a family

A lot of that analysis has space for biases but I'm pretty sure that modern large sports wages predate Reagan but also that the people mentioning rich athletes in Roman times are a bit off too

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I have to admit that, without wanting to defend absurd wages for anyone, there's a pretty decent explanation in the case of athletes. If you're one of the top ten boxers in the world, there are tens (hundreds?) of millions of people that want to see your matches. It's not unreasonable to ask for some compensation for providing entertainment, so let's say each viewer is paying 1 USD / match. After paying the costs of setting up the match, you're still left with millions of dollars per match.

Specially in the case of top-level athletes, we're in a situation where very may people want to see very few people provide entertainment. Even if they take a very low price, they're still going to be making buckets of money. I don't really think that would be unfair, provided they actually charged some small amount. What irritates me is that the sports associations have decided to charge absurd amounts to squeeze people fore mine to make even more. That should definitely be illegal.

[–] porcoesphino@mander.xyz 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What irritates me is that the sports associations have decided to charge absurd amounts to squeeze people fore mine to make even more. That should definitely be illegal.

I split out my reply to this part because it's obvious it will be downvoted heavily in Lemmy

I get the sentiment but how does that effectively work?

Running the economics framing: Prices act to lower consumers willing to pay so if there is a limited resource, like a ticket, then its a way to filter out until you have how much it's worth.

That's mostly influenced by how keen fans are, how many fans there are, and how rich they are.

You can use a lottery alone or in conjunction but that usually leads to a black market with expensive tickets too. It seems pretty reasonable to me to have a lottery for some of the tickets to be in a lottery, but it also seems to not work that well practically.

It seems like for a lot of things time is used as a commodity for at least some tickets, like waiting in line overnight or first to load the page. Both don't really stop rich people, and have their other issues like realistically rewarding luck for if you hit refresh at the right moment without the server dying.

And it seems like some tickets go out to fan groups or individuals that have proven the care about the event like some trivia questions.

Looking at that, I'm just not intelligent enough to know how you really avoid at least a decent number of the tickets being expensive for some of the popular events.

I think this has gotten worse over time and I wonder how much of that is because we can move so much more freely than before. Or if there is another mechanism. Or if I'm just flat wrong here

Either way, I'm not sure how you make that substantially better

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

With modern tv/streaming, tickets aren't a limited resource anymore, in the sense that by far most of the viewers are not in place live.

Sure, you could price live tickets following "normal" market rules, since you still have the practical limitation regarding the number of people living in reasonable distance from the stadium. The idea of using pricing to regulate demand/consumption for streaming services doesn't really make sense the same way, since the marginal cost of another viewer is essentially zero.

[–] porcoesphino@mander.xyz 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah, great point and a big oversight of mine when I replied. Since I periodically have a single soccer game I want to watch and only really expensive options I should know better.

I wonder why. I think one of the things stopping prices dropping there is agreement that basically remove competitors.

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[–] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is just capitalism, isn't it?

Athletes and entertainers that make millions do so because people pay for it in large numbers. This is what capitalism wants and does.

I agree with your sentiment but I think you're just critiquing capitalism. If I had my way these people would be taxed up the wazoo. No baseball player or Hollywood actor should ever be worth 10s of millions, let alone hundreds, or billions.

[–] porcoesphino@mander.xyz 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

I think some of this is related to radio, tv and internet too. Before radio few people could follow a game live so the audience, or at least live emotional audience, is a lot smaller and that's pretty aligned to profit. Or put another way, if every Messi or Taylor Swift fan gave 50c every year they'd be filthy rich but that was harder to acheive before radio with things being more local.

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[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I understand the skepticism on society's priorities.

Athletes are literally 1-in-a-million individuals. They bring in crazy amounts of money from people who want to watch them play.

The real problem is that there are so many people who are willing to pay hundreds of dollars to watch a sports game, but not willing to see teachers properly compensates (in my opinion). Because athletes getting a big share of the pie that they're bringing in sounds fair to me. The question is why people have that much pie to give them, and not as much pie to give to schools.

[–] Supervisor194@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think the real problem is a government structure that lends itself to being captured by monied interests. The problem of capitalism chasing the money is only a problem because we have a government unable to properly tax the wealthy to ensure no one can amass the kind of wealth that makes it possible to capture the government.

[–] zbyte64@awful.systems 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

This. Everyone wants qualified, well paid teachers for their kids, just like how most people want universal healthcare. But our government and media structure actively disempowers any such movements in that direction. Ie "we can agree we all want these things but we can't agree on how"

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You mean the social sector being chronically underpaid with no improvement in sight? I blame less and less regulated lobbyism, a.k.a. legal corruption. Because the social sector doesn't have one, usually. It would often amount to the government bribing itself. What, politicians making good decisions without looking out for a payday, you say?

[–] zbyte64@awful.systems 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

And when the social sector lobbies it is called "special interests" by the press. When capital owners do it they are called "job creators" by the press. Edit: or so it goes in the states.

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Are you talking from the pov of one specific country? edit: not around here; not that the situation is much better

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I believe the standard singularity was in 1971. At least, according to wtfhappenedin1971.com

[–] kindred@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Something wrong with that link

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah, Idk I beans'd it somehow.

[–] gaiussabinus@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

Bread and Circuses, nothing else for the filthy plebs.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I thought anthletes are basically amateurs and only a few get famous enough to have sponsorship deals?

[–] TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago

College athletes yes (historically, this is significantly less true now)

But professional athletes, assuming the name it to the big leagues are generally very well paid even for random guys you don't know. Star athletes make millions/tens of millions per season

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[–] SolidShake@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Always leaving the mechanics out lol. My career is always under looked but yet everyone comes crawling in when their car doesn't work haha

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 2 days ago

Outside of the USA? You can still start around the 70's as a time when medical costs started increasing as the greatest generation started to retire, taking away talent from the workforce and starting to use all those retirement benefits they were entitled to. You also had an increase in quality of medicine, which usually came at a cost.

Funding these higher costs would require new taxes, which was becoming politically unpopular across First World democracies.

[–] jasoman@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I say it was around 1998 when George W. Bush meet with Harambe’s mom.

[–] Thoath@leminal.space 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

puts the movie, 'Gifted Hands' ~~infront~~ ~~in-front~~ inaspacefront of you

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[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Athletes that have spent thousands of hours training their whole lives to be the some of best in the world at their craft, generate billions of dollars doing their job. Why shouldn't they get paid well from that pool of billions?

Teachers, nurses, etc should get paid more, but their professions don't generate the same kind of revenue as the entertainment industry, so that money has to come from some other source, like the government.

[–] zbyte64@awful.systems 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Revenue is not the same as value, teachers enable much more economic activity than athletes. The fact we equate "profit generated" to the value of the profession is part of the problem.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I agree, but the money has to come from somewhere. Athletes generate the money they are paid, and they generate a lot so they get paid accordingly.

I don't think that we are equating profit generated as value. It's just a fact that athletes make lots of money because they generate it.

I think that what should happen is that the organizations/teams that are making billions should be taxed higher or something equivalent and those funds should go to under paid professionals like teachers. But, I don't think that athletes should make less because there's enough extra profits that both can exist.

[–] zbyte64@awful.systems 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Our political system equates value to revenue and that is why we don't tax accordingly. Business owners are labeled "job creators" and taxing them is framed as a negative value add.

Absolutely agree that athletes are also being exploited here and the burden should not fall on them to correct this (except as advocates for a better system).

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

profit generated by teachers is too indirect, too long term. Most people can’t even seem to conceptualize it, much less quantify it, plus who’s going to stay at a job 20+ years before they get a payoff

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