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Cattle ranchers are making less money in the US despite beef prices at an all-time high. In the meantime, Trump started importing beef from Argentina to lower beef prices, but only achieved to lower cattle prices.
this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2025
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Leopards Ate My Face
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Dairy, by nature of stress-spoiling, is relatively cruelty-free. That is to say, the profit motive is harmed unless you make the cow feel stress-free. So I've never seen how milk, butter, and cheese are not vegan. We make cows happy and get good milk in return, in excess of what the calf needs. Seems like a good trade for an animal that cannot survive without humans.
Blatant industry lying propaganda horseshit. The meat industry is rife with cruelty, to pretend otherwise is straight up dishonest.
There’s states where the industry even managed to get filming in a factory farm made illegal because they know just how unpleasant the entire operation is.
Your argument essentially boils down to "some animals can take more abuse than others before their bodies break down, therefore if you only eat the more fragile ones it's relatively less cruel, so go ahead and enjoy".
There are multiple reasons for being vegan. Animal cruelty is an important one, but there are also significant medical benefits associated with eliminating animal proteins. Milk, butter, and cheese are still based on animal proteins. Look up "Whole Food Plant Based" if you're curious.
I've been trying to eat vegan for several years now, after being mostly vegetarian for decades. Cheese is the one thing I just haven't been able to give up entirely. It's my single favorite food and the substitutes so far all fall under "better than nothing".
There are pockets of feral cattle in the world, including on Swona in Scotland, Australia, etc. So cows dont necessarily need us to survive, but we have bred things like dairy cows to such extremes that I doubt they would fare well. I do think it's debatable that dairy cows are treated well, I think it unfortunately depends a lot on which farmer they end up with and how they view livestock livelihood.
oh, can you tell where I can find more information about feral cattle?
Well, to have milk, the cows have to get pregnanat regularly. The calves are taken away, which is kind of traumatizing. They are often not treated well. The male calves are killed for meat. Also, despite the fact it is possible to use transgenic bacteria, cheese is still produced in many cases by adding calf stomachs as a rennet, so cheese is often not even vegetarian. The real well being of milk cows is also often not as nice as one would expect, despite the fact that stress spoiling is a thing. Turns out some stress level doesn't matter and some workers don't mind the risk and enjoy the cruelty. There have recently been some cases made public in my country, so I'm more informed then I'd like to be.
the vast majority of them are brought to full weight before slaughter
The cow doesn't consent.
As dumb as that sounds, you have to realize that to produce milk you must first be a mother. And to keep milk coming, you gotta continue being a mother.
Only one way to turn a heifer into a cow...
Also gotta realize that modern livestock breeds (not just bovine but poultry, pork, etc) are quite removed from their wild ancestors. They are only here because we keep them here. We didn't extend the same courtesy to most of their wild ancestors.
When a cheetah hunts a gazelle, the gazelle doesn't consent to death. When parasites infest you, you don't consent. When cows eat grass, the grass doesn't consent.
There is nearly no form of food consumption that doesn't extinguish a life or subjugate another lifeform. Until we can grow food in tubes to feed the human race, that will stay a fact of life for humans. Wild animals will continue though and that isn't something we can nor should intervene in.
Sure.
My main reason for doing the vegan thing for so long wasn't animal ethics...it was environmentalism and efficiency. Animal ethics came secondary, but I did come to understand the perspective.
Humanity is now able to make fully sustainable diets from non-animal sources. Some micronutrients (namely B12, D, Iron, Zinc, and Omega-3s) are difficult but not impossible to vegan-source.
I do not see a sustainable way to feed humanity going forward on an omnivorous diet. Especially not one that involves the volume of red meat that is found in a typical American diet.
However...your appeal to nature fallacy is flawed when you realize that there is nothing natural about modern agricultural livestock. You could say that an (American) slave had a better life than a person in the wilds of Africa. That obviously wouldn't be accurate...but you could say it.
It's not so much a matter of eat-or-be-eaten but one of freedom. And bovines especially...highly social creatures and incredible emotional intelligence. More than we give them credit for.
But even my hens exhibit unique "personalities" (chickenalities?), social hierarchy, even daily routines. I got one girl who, every day, I let them out, she follows me to the nesting box, checks out the situation, pecks my leg twice, then goes to her favorite dust-bath spot so the others don't get there first.
We could obviously argue about this for a long time. We could link to studies supporting our own viewpoints and still end up disagreeing, so I'll just short circuit that and disagree with you on most of what you said.
Only the last part I agree with: animals exhibit intelligence and social structures. That isn't limited to mammals, hot or cold-blooded creatures but insects as well.
We humans think we are better, more evolved, more intelligent, and thus more deserving of the crown on this planet. How intelligent are we though if we lose our capability to reason in groups? How smart are we if refuse to tackle climate change? How deserving of the crown are we if we are willing to roll the dice and continue the mass extinction even we are provoking just so that a few of use can indulge for a few generations?
it's absurd to discuss consent from anything nonhuman.
Found the bestiality enthusiast
this isn't a schoolyard.
Bro you're the one saying it's absurd to give any consideration to the consent of sentient beings 🤷♀️
sentience has nothing to do with consent