490
Cars are like horses: people will soon realise EVs are just better, claims VW boss
(www.autoexpress.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2026
490 points (96.2% liked)
Technology
85167 readers
3892 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
We know they’re better, we just can’t afford them.
Better analogies would be automatic vs manual transmission, power steering vs not, and CarPlay/Google Maps vs a paper atlas.
I think a lot of people know you have to pay to charge and that charging can take nearly an hour and they don’t see the point. I didn’t know what it cost to charge an EV before. I saw an article yesterday where someone charged, if I read it correctly, 89% of their capacity (they were down to 11%), for $13.99. Get a petrol driver to figure out their capacity, multiply it by 0.89, then multiply that by the cost of petrol in their area. Then convert to US Dollars and see which is cheaper. Guarantee it’s electric.
Of course, that leaves another variable. Batteries, being consumable devices. How much is the EV’s battery to replace (including labour) and how long does the OEM part last?
Many EV models have just started hitting price parity with comparable combustion cars with the same range
And batteries are STILL getting cheaper
That's on top of studies showing EV batteries are generally surviving longer than projected (often thanks to modern battery management systems reducing wear)
That's awesome. We've needed increases and advancements in battery since smartphones got popular almost 20 years ago (thanks iPhone) but EVs seem a bit more important, especially since that EV is also likely charging your phones while you drive.
And yes, I've heard that over time, battery prices and EV prices have come down.
The next person to reply to me mentions Americans and, more relating to your comment than theirs, I was just reading about how despite how Tesla had to push back against the gas-powered car industry to get a foothold, now that they're established, they're doing the same thing to keep competition out, namely China's BYD, which is "threatening" to undercut everybody, so they don't want that. If China can sell an EV for $10k less than the Americans are selling theirs (and Elon Musk, who isn't exactly American, not that it's about nationality per se), then Americans can certainly sell theirs for less and get more people buying. Apparently at this point it's cheaper and more profitable to fight competition than it would be to allow competition in the industry. To be clear though, it's not just Tesla and BYD, it's Tesla and all the other automakers fixing the price and BYD is saying you can get an EV for much less than that. Fortunately, more and more people are listening to BYD. Cheaper EVs is what we need to get more people driving them.
If you're looking at fast charging (1 hour or less) on a regular basis, you're doing it wrong. The vast majority of charging should happen while the car is already parked, using level 2 AC charging. This means when you park at home, with, etc, you take just a few seconds to connect a charger, then walk away. When you come back ~8 hours later, you take a few seconds to unplug before leaving. This approach, believe it or not, means I spend less time dealing with fuel than if I had a gas car.
Plus, AC charging is much cheaper, and more reliable. These chargers are very simple devices, that just do a bit of monitoring and negotiation. They deliver raw 240v to the car, which has its own AC-DC converter.
DC fast charging is much more expensive - $14 for a full DC charge is very unlikely. That's because DCFC stations are very big, complex installations. As such, they also have parts fail on a regular basis. DCFC is often more expensive than gas, but again should only be used on rare occasions.
As for batteries failing, it's about as often as a gas engine fails. IOW, it's extremely rare until the car is EOL anyway. Battery degradation is typically 85-90% health remaining at 100k miles.
This is a new kind of propaganda. Most of that is reasonable except 15 minutes is not "close to an hour" to charge.
Your hour might apply to one model that's more than a decade old. It has never taken a Tesla that long to charge, and it doesn't take that long for any other modern model to charge.
It isn't propaganda. The site I mentioned that showed me the price said 41 minutes charging. Maybe "close to an hour" is an exaggeration and I apologise if you read it as anti-EV propaganda. Read my comments, I'm actually kinda pro-EV here. The thing is, I don't own one. I'm cautiously optimistic about the future, and that's the truth as best I can tell it.
I will grant you I've heard of faster charging. I was just going off of what I read. Which IIRC was covering a newer electric vehicle — the new Subaru?
I guess you're right. My Hyundai just charges faster than most.
Also contributing to the experience is that I pretty much never need to charge 10 to 80%. I haven't taken it on a 7+ hour drive yet where I'd need that. For 5 hours I can generally just stop for ten minutes and that's enough. So these 30 minute stops sound weird to me.
The used market is not there right know. Those EVs last longer and have had a lot of progress in the last years. That means that you do not have that many cheap used offerings as you have with petrol cars.
People really need to think of petrol motors as consumption parts. Your engine will need a lot of mainenance and it also has a lifespan. That lifespan is shorter than that of a battery
People can keep ICE engines running a very long time.
You might have to replace the plugs, timing belt, pistons, valves, rods, gasket, camshaft, crankshaft, sleeves, and block, but the engine? It can last a really long time.
Don't forget the infrastructure! The average American is within 5 minutes of a gas station, but charging stations are very few and far between (you can't even cross certain states with one charge because of the gap).
What state(s) would that be? I just checked PlugShare, and it shows plenty of fast charging stations even through rural states like Kansas and Montana.
I guess Alaska would count, but even that's pretty well covered from Anchorage to Fairbanks
Wendover covered the issue in this video he made 5 years ago (so maybe it got solved), but you could not drive from Denver, CO to Dallas, TX from either direction. The maximum range of cars on the market combined with the lack of changing stations along the way meant it was impossible without getting stranded in the middle.
5 years is a very long time in this field right now. 3 years ago, Aging Wheels made a video about how Tesla Superchargers were the only real option for a road trip. A few months ago, they released a video where they avoided superchargers because they were outdated technology.
I just checked, and it's very doable on most EVs. There aren't a lot of good options from Amarillo to Wichita Falls, but most can cross that gap anyway.
Charging stations are getting more and more common.
I was reading that a lot of gas stations are transitioning from "stop and go" (or "stop and convenience store and go") to a more "rest area" format. As in, there will be things to do there while your EV charges. Brands like Sheetz and Wawa and Buc'ees that already provide food (and, by some accounts, it's better than your typical "gas station" fare) are looking into other things to keep you hanging around. Before, gas stations wanted you to leave ASAP so you free up a pump for another customer. But now if you have to take an hour to charge, they want to keep you fed and entertained so your time is not wasted. (But, by the same token, they're going to want you to vacate your charging port once you're done, so another customer can charge. Imagine waiting not only to charge, but for a charger to open up.)
Hopefully it improves as time goes on - from what I can gather EVs in the US mainly make sense if you're a homeowner or live in an apartment that has a charging station on site.
(I wouldn't be able to own one and reliably maintain charge right now as a college student, for example)
I’ve never understood the gas station thing. Unless you’re along a highway, why would people stop? Charging does have different characteristics than refueling, so we shouldn’t expect the same behavior to be convenient. As hone charging and destination charging get more widespread, you never need to go to a local gas station again. Some of them may be worried about extinction, and they should be
Yeah, charging in apartments, HOAs, street parking is much less developed but it is making progress finally. Part of it is up to states to jumpstart, through building codes and incentives
While i’ve never seen actual data, the colleges I’ve visited were among the first “landlords” to add EV chargers. As a student, getting a campus parking pass is harder than finding charging once you do
Last year at family weekend for my youngest, I was annoyed at having to stay at a distant hotel, when those along campus had chargers
I'm definitely not against charging as a concept - it's just in my current circumstances it's not viable. Without doxxing myself, the current college I am in does not have charging at any of their parking garages or at the dorms.
To own an EV, you basically have to be able to AC charge at home or at work. The good news is that all of the new 5-over-1 apartment buildings (at left around here) are being built with a handful of chargers right from the beginning. As they become more popular, it's pretty easy to add more.
But you can also get creative. My local chain grocery store has level 2 chargers in the parking lot. These don't make much sense to use while shopping, but they're convenient enough for all of the older apartments nearby. Most universities have AC chargers, but it's probably not convenient and you'd have to move your car the next day.
The gas car goes a lot further on 1 tank.
Electrics use .25-.35 KWh per mile, if you're paying 24 cents per kwh, thats 6-10 cents per mile.
A car that gets 35 mpg and pays 4.2USD/gallon spends 12 cents per mile on fuel.
Clarification: in many areas, cats are expected to last so many miles or kilometers per tank/charge so you can’t be stranded between refills/charges. I think it’s 300 miles but I’m not sure. Less efficient vehicles, thus, need larger gas tanks or batteries.
So while, in theory, some cars will be able to get more miles before they die from running out of gas or charge, the consumer can typically expect a reasonable minimum.
Also, call it dystopian, but a great option would be to charge at work. Charge slowly over the course of a shift. They take it right out of your check. Pre-tax if you’re lucky (I’ve heard government jobs can do this? Not sure about private sector). Then you just don’t worry about it because it happens when you’re not there. You just always have charge. Charge a little every day or all at once on Friday, either way. As opposed to charging at home, I mean, for people who can’t install the charger at home for whatever reason.
My company decided it wasn’t worth trying to charge for charging: it’s free! It’s only 30a level 2, but the reality is most people only take half a day and we all move our cars over lunch. Even a fairly slow charger handles two cars in a shift
Charging at home or work would be great. From my perspective, the biggest obstacle to EV ownership is road trips. I just did a trip last week that was 2000 miles round-trip. Having to stop multiple times a day for charging would be a real challenge, not just for current lack of infrastructure, but also the time spent charging. Fuel stations are everywhere and I can have a full tank in <5 minutes. Until EV charging approaches these numbers, I don't see myself owning an EV. Although I guess there is the option to rent a traditional vehicle for those periods, I usually make multiple 1000+ mile trips per year, so those costs aren't insubstantial.
I don't own an EV either, nor do I have any financial (or otherwise) stake in any EV company or technology. Actually, I don't have any financial stake in any company, except the one I work for because they employ me, so it's in my interest... anyway, I'm getting off track.
Point is, on your road trip, you had to stop for food. The idea is, you'd refill and eat at the same time. Unless you were really picky about your food, you could just eat at the gas station (which also has chargers). That's the idea they're going for with these "rest area charging stations".
You make a lot of trips, which means you spend a lot in gas. Again I'm not saying you should buy an EV. What I am saying you should do is, try to find out what that trip would cost you in fuel and in charging. I bet you pay less than half for the charging. $10 vs $20 (assuming USD because you said miles) isn't nothing, but it's not a vehicle purchase decision. $100 vs $200 isn't really a purchase decision either, but it's a bit more substantial. If you had a way to figure out your fuel costs over a year and then figured out what those miles would cost to recharge in an EV, it would at the very least be some interesting numbers to look at.
Road trips are certainly a weak point for EVs. If you go on more than 3 or 4 per year, EVs are not (and probably won't be for a while) a good option.
But I do at least see it getting better in the next future. All of the pieces are there, just not in one place. When taking a long trip, you're already supposed to stop every 2 hours to stand up and walk around for a bit. You or your passengers probably also need to use the restroom. Every 2-3 of these, you need to stop for food.
Currently, it's a PITA to link these with fast charging. You should be able to pull into a truck stop (etc), easily and conveniently, and plug in while you do the rest. Except the fast chargers aren't usually at truck stops, and apps like ABRP don't have an option to set stops by time.
If this all lined up, and you have a car with reasonably fast charging (like the Ioniq 5), I don't think you'd have to wait on charging very much at all.
It just takes a bit of extra planning. Chart out your desired route with ABRP or such, and hit the road? I'm in Sweden, so we may have a bit more charging infrastructure than your country, but you might be surprised.
On long roadtrips, I prefer planning that I will charge for like 15 minutes every couple hours, then making sure to get a stretch, eat something small, and get a short walk in. The couple minutes it takes to just fill the tank isn't sufficient to prevent deep vein thrombosis and other health issues.
Average residential electric cost is $0.18/kwh, and the average new car fuel economy is 29mpg combined then yes, if you inflate the cost of electricity by 25% and reduce the fuel cost of the car by 17% then the ICE car is nearly as cost effective as an EV.
Where is it 18 cents? I've never heard of it being that cheap anywhere. I picked numbers that matched my experience and were easy to math.
My electricity is $0.09/kwh, or about $0.15/kwh when you factor in the bullshit fees AEP slaps on...
I also just looked up the average residential cost of electricity...
Just did the math on my whole bill. My actual price per kWh is $0.19, so more than 18, waaaaay less than 24, I also pay extra for 100% green power generation and I live in an area that is known for its electric utility corruption.
Your analogies make no sense either.
I presume the headline is alluding to how eventually people accepted cars are better than horses but then your "better" analogies make no sense.
Auto vs manual, neither is "better", it depends more on situation and personal preference. I'd take a manual over auto any day personally.
Power steering vs not again depends on application. I'd rather have no power steering in a little sports car and get more positive feedback but would rather power steering on some heavy unwieldly vehicle.
A map vs sat nav bullshit. I'm guessing more people would argue the latter being "better" in this case but there are plenty of people who would rather read a map and know exactly where they are rather than blindly follow shit.
So yeh I really don't understand what you are driving at with your analogies and don't think they work for the context unless I'm misunderstanding :)
Ok Boomer. Following a sat nav is not blindly following. Does your map predict the future? Tell you where construction and traffic is?
No, they make sense, and I thank you for being transparent with your biases. That’s not common online, but it’s a standard I strive for and respect.
The same kind of person who prefers manual transmission would prefer a gas engine. Let’s look at Mustang drivers. Nuff Said. (For those who don’t get it, Google “1969 Mustang Eleanor” and “Mustang EV”. One is a work of art. The other is a crime against automobile style or at least should never have been called Mustang — would have been a great opportunity to revive the Ford Galaxy brand.)
I agree with most of what you’ve been saying, but I’m going to gently push back on the Mustang EV. I think it’s one of the best looking EVs out there and it would be the one that I would choose (or the Subie EV because I love my Crosstrek). I do agree that it probably should not have been called a Mustang though because it doesn’t really look like one and there’s a whole culture thing behind the Mustang.
I would be thrilled if there was a manual shift EV. I know it doesn’t make sense and I don’t care if it doesn’t really do what combustion engines do, but I loved driving stick. I was sad to give up my old stick, but I went for the car with much higher safety ratings. It doesn’t even have to be real, just give me that feeling of driving manual would be great. And with a proper stick shifter too, not the silly paddle shifters.
Nah, like I said, the Mustang EV is fine, but like you said, it shouldn't have been called a Mustang. I suggested the Galaxy name. I think with a different name I would have been fine with it. The Mustang has had a few identity crises over the years, from Pinto look in the 70s to the boxy look in the 90s, to this pseudo-retro look from 2005... but it has never been a mom-mobile for a soccer team. No, an SUV/crossover isn't a minivan, but it's close. And I liked Ford's minivan, the Aerostar. I can't speak to its mechanical capabilities, but I liked the look of it. The one whose front is a straight ramp from the top of the grille to the roof. A lot of people didn't like them. I thought they were neat (looking). Even wanted one, at one point. Figured I'd take out the seats and turn the back into a living/hangout area. Some people actually did that, mostly with full size vans. I only thought about it.
No one cares about the name behind a car. The original mustang was a high volume piece of shit car that only resonated with Boomers.
You're not far off if you're implying I'm a Boomer. Gen X. But younger generations call us Boomers anyway (e.g. Boomer Shooter, in reference to games like Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem 3D, and DOOM). So if you call 1979-1980 and back Boomers, then, guilty.
I will grant you that my love for the older Mustang is nostalgia for the way it looks. I do not actually want to own one.