this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2026
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[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

AI is an amplifier.

So very much this ^^^.

If you put in the same time and effort creating software using AI that you would have put in coding by hand, in my experience you get better software, much more thorough documentation and automated testing, and fewer "oops" moments down the line. Not perfection, but better.

If you just give a loosely specified prompt and take the first functional looking thing that comes out, you can get code 10x faster than ever before, and it's going to be a 100x bigger mess to maintain.

A rule of thumb (aka useless constant applied to imaginary metrics) that my colleagues and I have found is: 80%. Work on an assumption that what you get back from each AI pass is about 80% good or right. Work to identify the 20% that needs more refinement, do another pass, now you're up to 96% good - and honestly probably already better than most first pass ready for a pull request code we used to submit 2 years back. Do a third pass on that and you've probably got something that's not going to give any trouble in all but some really rare cases, and you got it in about half the time you would have spent on lower quality output.

I have been trying, with limited success, to get our junior engineers to use AI to review their own code before submitting pull requests. Some do a single pass and their PRs are pretty good, one says he "doesn't believe in AI" and his code typically needs 3-4 review passes before it's even acceptable, even though he's clearly using AI to write the documentation. AI review is how they're finding all these zero day exploits in widely used products, it works, it finds maybe 80% of things you're looking for (if you keep the scope focused inside its context window capacity.) We are having slightly more success with all the junior engineers by having them submit 5-10 small pull requests per 2 week sprint instead of one big one. This not only helps human reviewers understand the bite sized chunks, it also means the AI reviews are more thorough. It also means the architectural definition steps are much more critical because review of tiny chunks misses more of the architectural level picture.

The biggest ethical question I have about using AI centers on management of management expectations. If management really thinks the human contribution value in software creation has disappeared overnight - I'd look for different management, because that ship just steered straight into an iceberg field. Some of them may pull off the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, but most won't.

[–] Exatron@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

In my experience the time spent getting AI to do what I want can just be used to write good code in the first place.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

I was just planning to do some sort of write up on this topic, although it will be internal only.

Of the three projects I’m currently on

  • existing code base where AI sometimes has good ideas but almost never able to implement them successfully. This is legacy code, all human generated, and is probably too tightly coupled. Test framework is tightly coupled to the environment so ai cannot run it
  • new tool implementation to give cheaper and faster context across all repos (Spotify Backstage)
  • new code base almost entirely ai generated. Much more loosely coupled. There is no test /mock framework available, so it’s all scripts, which the ai is able to run at will to refine its guesses

There’s definitely distinct conditions where ai can be the right tool and can succeed vs when it can’t. In managements blind rush to vibe code everything, they need to better understand where it works and where it doesn’t

In particular, functionality I’m working on this week

  • existing code base ”modify function x to cover scenario y” at best gives a useful strategy
  • new code base “implement function x similar to existing code base, but that also covers scenario y” seems to work
[–] MangoCats@feddit.it -3 points 1 day ago

It can be like that, and other times it can spit out perfectly good work that similar jobs have taken me a week in the past in under an hour. Depends on the task, depends a bit on how you ask, and depends on the model. Claude Sonnet/Opus 4.5 and higher have gotten pretty good about actually saving time and producing useful results.

Except when trying to draw 3D cats in Blender, I can say with authority now: Opus 4.8 on High/Max thinking still can't pin the tail on a cat correctly without a half dozen very specific annotated views showing it where it goes. It claims it's having trouble because the cat is lying down... our cat lays down 22 hours a day, suck it up and learn what they look like already.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is the first comment section i've seen on lemmy with a reasonable discussion about AI use that wasnt instantly downvoted into oblivion for being pro-AI

Usually this place is full of the "EVERYTHING IS SLOP" crowd without any nuance as to how it is being actually used to do small tasks well under the supervision of a qualified person.

[–] moustachio@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This comment thread reads 100% like AI astroturfing. AI is not an amplifier, there’s literally no evidence from any study that’s been done that backs that. That’s just AI company marketing.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

"AI IS AMAZING AND INEVITABLE!!!" = astroturfing

"AI sucks at X, but sometimes useful at Y... use with caution." = astroturfing

"AI SUCKS AT LITERALLY EVERY TASK!!! ITS ALL SLOP!!! SLOP SLOP SLOPPITTY SLOP!!!" = only organic discussion and reasonable take....

Look, there are 100s of valid reasons why AI sucks and is unethical... in fact, it's pretty much 100% built on unethical methods, no doubt...

But "AI sucks at everything and literally has zero good use cases" is not a real argument, but it seems to be the most popular opinion around here.

I disagree with 90% of the pro-AI stuff out there, i'm just pointing out that its rare to hear a reasonable discussin on the topic here that isnt just 100% hate

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world -1 points 13 hours ago

If AI actually adds value, it should be trivial to demonstrate that value-add in a way that passes scientific rigor.

The underlying problem is that we don't have a good way to measure code value. Software quality is most closely coporable to a weird combination of scientific paper, mechanical diagnostic, and toy instructuon. And we don't have good ways to measure those, either.

There was apparently one study from Stanford:

https://medium.com/@manusf08/does-ai-really-boost-developer-productivity-a-stanford-study-of-100-000-devs-has-answers-4f64c64ebe97

Note that the headline is misleading -- stanford apparently trainded an AI model to "rate code" in a way that agreed with some of their staff and then ran that on a bunch of projects. The "good at simple and new, bad at complex and old" matches my intuition, but isn't really a stronger test than counting minutes spent in a project or dollars spent on programming with or without AI.


And all AI output is slop. It's just that for some things slop is good enough.

~Which really should be an argument more for discarding those things than boiling oceans to generate more of them, but capitalism loves doing wasteful things~

[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 0 points 1 day ago

The AI company marketing (and development) I see still seems to focus mostly on the "we can give a really non-specific prompt and get a functioning app out of thet" - which is missing the point for my uses of it.

My company is very interested in leveraging the new tools where we can, but not laying anybody off (yet) - I think the target is hoping that our exploration time is being roughly balanced with increases in efficiency, which is more or less how we're managing it for the past few months.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago

And... there it is.