this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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We all see and hear what goes on over there. Kim will execute kids if they don’t cheer hard enough at his birthday party or something? He’s always threatening to nuke countries and is probably has the highest domestic kill count out of any world leader today.

So I ask? Why don’t any other countries step in to help those people. I saw a survey asking Americans and Escaped North Koreans would they migrate to North Korea and to the US if given the chance (hypothetical for the refugees). And it was like <0.1% to 95%. Obviously those people live in terror.

Why do we just allow this to happen in modern civilization? Nukes on South Korea? Is just not lucrative to step in? SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME PLEASE!?

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[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one -1 points 2 days ago (10 children)

It's the same reason why the world is leting Israel commit genocide, or not get involved in the Yemen Civil War, or ongoing genocide in Maynamer, or the dozens of current active war zones.

The world simply doesn't care. The wold only cares when the global economy is being threatened.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world -3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It's not that people "don't care". We've tried intervening with force in e.g. Afghanistan, where the oppressive regime was forcibly removed, and military power was used to ensure that elections were held and the results were respected.

We have observed, several times, that everything goes to shit when we leave. Not only that, but people generally don't seem like it when outsiders take over and tell them how to run their country, who should be allowed an education, and that cannot be oppressed. So a side effect of the armed intervention is that a lot more people hate you now.

Western countries "aren't doing anything" because we've both learned from experience that military intervention doesn't really work, and been repeatedly told by the rest of the world to mind our own business.

[–] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Western countries "aren't doing anything" because we've both learned from experience that military intervention doesn't really work, and been repeatedly told by the rest of the world to mind our own business

The west and israel literally wanted to overthrow the regime in iran few weeks ago

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"The west" isn't really a cohesive unit regarding Israel/Iran. You have some western countries supporting a genocide and committing blatant violations of international law, while others condemn them for it and try to pressure them to stop.

Sadly, one rogue state can cause a lot of damage, and countries typically have a very high bar for using military force against their closest allies in defence of a third party.

[–] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 2 points 1 day ago

"The west" isn't really a cohesive unit regarding Israel/Iran. I would say the major one france, uk, canada, the usa, germany

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Kinda shocking to me how anyone can present such a whitewashed take on the Afghanistan War in 2025. It didn't go to shit when we left, it was shit from the beginning.

We shortsightedly allied with brutal local warlords, and the failure at local politics blew up in our faces. We bombed 100s of villages, losing the hearts and minds of the people. We sent innocent people to be tortured in Pakistani black sites, creating a fanatical resistance willing to martyr themselves. We forcefully changed the main agricultural output from wheat to opium poppy, leading to widespread drug abuse and addiction. I could go on and on...

I'm not sure if there is a military intervention model that works, but American-style military intervention with mass civilian deaths and warcrimes from beginning to end is a proven failure.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It didn't go to shit when we left, it was shit from the beginning.

It seems like you didn't observe the thousands of people swarming the airport in Kabul trying to get out with the last planes. It also seems like you haven't picked up on the people crying about how people are being brutally punished for getting an education or listening to music now.

I'm not denying that shit was really bad while coalition forces were there, but acting like it didn't get worse for a lot of people when the left is just closing your eyes.

Regardless, it's ludicrous to claim that western countries "aren't doing anything because they don't care". It's not like we've spent truckloads of money and thousands of lives over 20 years of trying to get a functioning system in place while preventing a humanitarian crisis because we "didn't care". People saw it as immoral to just turn our backs on Afghanistan and let them solve their own problems. The result was largely that we learned that you can't force democracy and human rights onto someone else, as proven by the almost complete absence of people willing to fight for just that once the coalition left.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I did not close my eyes when America turned it's back on the thousands of Afghans who helped the American regime during the war. The people who helped America were left resourceless and with giant targets on their back. We betrayed them.

I did not close my eyes when the flimsy and deeply flawed education system America propped up instantly failed the moment we left.

The abandonment of Afghan allies and the destruction of girl's education in Afghanistan are just two more data points showing the deep failures of the American model of foreign intervention.

We did not spend truckloads of money trying to get a functioning system in place. A lasting functioning system was never the goal. I urge you to read into our military's functions and objectives in Afghanistan, because you are deeply misinformed. Anyone who suggests our goals were "democracy and human rights" is obviously infected with US propaganda.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here?

My point is that, while flimsy and flawed, there was in fact an education system and a humanitarian system in place that was propped up by coalition forces. This system did fall apart, leaving no system at all when the forces left. And yes, a bunch of Afghanis have every right to feel betrayed. I never said otherwise.

It's not like Afghanistan is the only place where schools, hospitals and infrastructure has been financed by western countries. By and large, we spend a lot of money on these things because a significant portion of the population sees it as the right thing to do. Because we care, and want to help people.

What became very clear in Afghanistan was that you can't force a population to be a liberal democracy. They have to be willing to fight for it themselves. The Afghan army (on paper) had several hundred thousand men, loads of heavy equipment, and several years to train and prepare for coalition forces leaving. There was a government structure in place. These things instantly folded when the coalition left because, clearly, enough people preferred Taliban to what the outsiders had forced upon them.

I guess I'm saying it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you stay, you're an oppressive occupier. If you leave, you're a traitor that permits a humanitarian crisis to occur.

The OP here asked "why doesn't anybody do anything about NK", and my answer is that we (seem to) have learned that you can't force democracy and human rights on a country. Chalking it up to "we don't care" is reductionist.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Since you are still completely missing the basics, let's do a little history lesson then.

The bombing of Afghanistan started in retaliation to 9/11. After initial bombing of Al-Quaeda training camps and Taliban headquarters, we asked the Afghan government to hand over Bin Laden. They said "yes we will hand him over if you agree to stop bombing". George W's famous response was " we don't negotiate with terrorists". The bombing continued, and Bin Laden fled to Pakistan to survive for years.

The propagandistic idea that we were there to nation build and create a liberal democracy only entered the picture a year into the brutal bombing campaign because the US populace was turning against the war.

Then, we propped up a classic puppet government that was always destined to fail when we left. Elements of a puppet government include:

  • installing a leader from a minority faction
  • allowing them to violently repress members of the majority faction
  • brutal violence inflicted upon dissenters
  • development of natural resources for the desires of the imposing nation, a lack of sustainable development for the local people
  • creating a system with very little input from local leaders, and never giving them a reason to participate or have skin in the game

The Afghan army had many huge problems. There is a plethora of news stories from 2008-2021 showing how the army is poorly trained, unmotivated, and largely drug addicted. Military leaders have been saying the entire time that this army would not stand on its own.

The Afghan army did have one strong motivation though: money. It was a mercenary army. But when the US withdrew in 2021 we stole the majority of the funds from the Afghan Central Bank (over $7bln dollars was taken by the Biden administration). Not only did this immoral act of theft cripple the Afghan economy, it destroyed their ability to pay the mercenary army.

No one who was actually paying attention expected the unpaid mercenary army to defend the puppet government once we left. Maybe, if the money kept flowing, they could have held up for a few months, but the stolen Central Bank funds ensured that was impossible.

I'm not saying "we don't care". Many individual people did earnestly care, and tried their best. But the military and civilian systems created by the US were never built for the benefit of the Afghan people. Your positive spin on this war is naive and ahistorical.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Great, it seems like we agree on the major points here! I'm not denying any of the major issues of the Afghan war, nor any of the glaring problems with how the whole "nation building" attempt went about. I'm very well aware of the history of the Afghan war, and have seen several of the documentaries you refer to that point out that it was largely known that the Afghan army would likely desert once the coalition left.

I'm not saying we don't care.

That is quite literally what you said in your first comment, and is literally the only thing I've disagreed with you on so far ("the world simply doesn't care"). If you didn't mean that, then I don't see anything I disagree with you on.

Many individual people did earnestly care, and tried their best.

This is literally the point I've been trying to make, but it seems like you keep misinterpreting me as saying the whole invasion was a misunderstood humanitarian operation. I'm not saying that.

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