this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2025
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You're speaking as if the US started it. They did not. Russia literally invaded Ukraine in the false pretense that they are under the control of a Nazi regime. There is no Nazi regime, barely even a functioning contingent, and certainly nothing out of proportion with the rest of the world's far right representation. If anything, this "proxy war" serves two purposes: 1. To field test new technology and 2. To undercut Russian propaganda. It's apparent to anyone paying attention that Russia is the aggressor, they've vastly oversold their own capability, and their propaganda machine is flailing.
I'm not saying there are no issues within the US that urgently need resolved, but let's be honest with ourselves -- authoritarianism is authoritarianism no matter their lat/long or cultural/economic history, at home and abroad.
Edit: got caught up in my own argument and forgot to mention the obvious third reason: to help the sovereign nation of Ukraine defend itself from invasion.
That's right history starts on February 2022, nothing happened before then. 🤡
It was a US orchestrated, planned and funded fascist coup.
They decided who would be in the (fascist) government, proven by the Nuland-Pyatt call.
Then those nazi scum terrorised the east and south for 8 years.
On the orders of UK US they broke the Minsk agreements, also proven and were going for a final push to ethnicly cleanse those who didn't want to live under their regime.
But then 'Russia started it' LOL
The US started it.
Just like it did with Venezuela (failed so far), Myanmar (failed), Hong Kong (failed), Belarus (failed), Kazachstan (failed), Georgia (failed), Afghanistan (ruined and failed), Pakistan (to a lesser extend) and Syria (ruined but success).
Not to mention the "Arab Spring" (success), so Lybia among a host of MENA nations as well.
If the US hadn't been involved with its subservient media, but some other country, like Russia, being involved then there would be questions like:
"How are these interim presidents like Ahmed al-Sharaa being selected?"
"So all of these interim presidents are all living in Russia and move from Russia into these countries as presidents?"
"And these people are recieving peace prizes in Russia/Belarus/North Korea?"
"So most of these people in Finland that's in civil war right now don't know at all who this interim president is, was never on the ballot, lived most of his life in Russia, but it's okay, because this is an interim president, selected 'internationally'?"
And headlines like:
"Russia installs another Puppet President into Finland under the pretense of democracy and soveirignity."
"Russia calls to implement another slave shield zone above the nation of Greece, dubbed 'no-fly zone' in Russian language"
The only thing Ukraine stands out of the list is that Zelensky actually had been elected by the people and started out as an internal project for an oligarch, unlike CIA puppets Ahmed al-Sharaa, Hamid Karzai, Juan Guaidó, Reza Pahlavi, Fethullah Gülen, Aung San Suu Kyi, Joshua Wong, Ursula von der Leyen and others.
Zelensky however was about as thruthful in his campaign being an anti-war president as Trump has been and so his pro-Russian voters got completely betrayed, because he decided that he wanted to join the EU at all cost, thinking that this would turn his country into an economic miracle following the same economic trend as neighbouring Poland, repeating history with truisms as the economic landscape of the world has changed dramatically between the days Poland started to recieve EU subsidies and US investments and when Zelensky became president, with Russia in a much better position where it was back then and so Ukrainian people with growing economic ties to Russia only further entrenched themselves towards support for Russia.
Russia invaded Ukraine because it violated the Minsk 3 agreements time and time again and because of mistrust of the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement that included military cooperation with NATO countries, which aroused suspicions of Ukraine trying to join NATO, an anti-Russia organisation, with Ukraine being an artificially created nation by the Soviet Union that contains mostly parts of Russia and Poland.
The US supporting Ukrainian nazis thing was just the most emotionally infuriating part, but not the most worrying as suppression of the Russian people in the Donbass was, who tried to vote themselves out of the country, but were violently suppressed.
The invasion was a warning to Ukraine that if it did not sign the agreement that it would refrain itself from joining NATO,
it could expect a devestating war, which it now does.
If anyone has footage of this by the way, please direct me to it.
I did not save the footage of people going to polling stations and being shot at by Ukrainian troops.
The footage I saw had loud sweeping music/commentary added to it,
which did a giant disservice in my opinion to spread the atrocity that happened that day.
You are portraying Russia, a global superpower, as the unilateral victim. I am saying there is more nuance, especially concerning superpowers. I don't support usurpation or invasion by anyone. You can't suppose that ideologically and economically opposed nations won't both editorialize (which seems here to be your concern, editorializing). Yet here we are.
No, I am concerned about Ukraine that is fighting an unwinnable war for the US(/UK/EU) that set them up with unrealistic goals and demands, while their enemy had modest demands that are now being eroded as Ukraine has decided that these modest demands should be met with a fight to the death fueled by the outdated view of the world that you can't go wrong when you have the military and financial backing of the US.
And Ukraine is now fighting until there's nothing left, because while if it was a regional conflict,
this nation would have crumbled and surrendered, it is now sacrificing every life it has
as a constant stream of financial support from the EU, UK and US allows Zelensky to theoretically
go for a zero sum war until there's no Ukrainian citizen left.
Russia is a regional superpower.
The current power behind Russia, China is the global superpower.
Russia meanwhile is not a victim because it's winning and they came to the rescue of the Russian Ukrainians who had been suppressed since the coup of 2014.
The victims are the Russian Ukrainians and Ukrainian conscripts as both groups have been duped
into voting for a conman that is unfit to be president and lets his decisions be made by foreign powers
who have no stake in Ukraine and use Ukrainians as cannon fodder as the foreign themselves also have the outdated
view of the world that you can't go wrong when you have the military and financial backing of the US.
This entire war is currently the biggest example of the failure of liberal democracy.
The Soviet Union did not do anything remotely like this when it started losing power,
dissolved peacefully with geopolitical issues far more difficult to solve than the issues
the US is currently experiencing and yet the US is dropping the ball because it's a liberal democracy
and a bad one at that.
Ukraine has a card-carrying puppet president elected for the polar opposite for what he was elected for,
all the EU nations have shown themselves to be puppet leaders of the US,
and thrown their economies, which is about 25+ countries, into financial ruin to support this war,
which should have remained a regional conflict of a border and alliance dispute,
and it's even hurting the US financially as well,
because it is currently China, not the US,
where can't go wrong when you have the military and financial backing of.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
Considering that I made a comment pointing out the futility of trying to make good-faith arguments within this environment and a mod removed it, I think this is a relevant quotation. Thanks!
The US did start it, by constantly poking with threats and actions here and there. Like in 2014 when they overthrew the actual democratically elected Ukraine government for the crime of being "Too friendly with Russia" and then propped up the current Nazi regime that is completely russo-phobic.
They even went so far as to rename a city because it had a "Russian spelling".
Right, because the US told Yanukovych to brutalize his people, and also told the people to revolt and the supreme court to remove him from office, so he could flee to Russia. Not saying the West didn't see this as an opportunity to strengthen economic ties, but it was not a bear and stick moment. Why do you insist that only the West is at fault? Culpability is shared
Why would he tell people to “revolt” when he was the president of the country? That doesn’t even make sense. Who did he “brutalize,” specifically? It was the coup snipers who shot people in Maidan from rooftops. It was a false flag attack.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311886.2023.2269685
I'm not going to get into a citation contest with you, that would be a train to nowhere. My final point still stands.
So basically admitting you're full of shit
Just accepting you can't reason with ideologues 👍
Nah man not sticking around to be abused like that, buhbye
LOL
Disgusting way of speaking. Reported.
Considerably less disgusting than the smug Joss-Wheadon-by-Reddit condensing way of speaking I was responding to.
You people act like the rudest, most condescending assholes imaginable, but then go crying to the mods when people respond in kind
You know what's disgusting? snitches and rats
Imagine calling me "snitch" because that account (or you, if probably forgot to change account) abuses other people. Yeah I am a snitch, people like those deserve to have their phones and computers stripped away.
"If you call an asshole an asshole, you should have your property stolen"
Least stupid .worlder
Yeah, what you wrote to that guy absolutely suits you.
Ok
"or you, if probably forgot to change account"
"people like those deserve to have their phones and computers stripped away."
Having a hard time containing your fascist traits?
Ukranian?
Are you okay? I'm defending people from abuse, from someone who doesn't know how to be civil, and you come and say I'm fascist? Have you seen yourself in the mirror man?
and I'll just block you since you have nothing of value to say.
See how easy it is?
You don't even have to be a dirty rat snitch if you don't want to see something.
Man you're something incredible
Edit: you're the one saying I have mental health issues ahahah, get well man. Keep spiraling in that vortex of hate and insults, I don't give a shit, but as aforementioned, people like you shouldn't be allowed to use the internet. Not for your ideas and ideologies, but because you're incapable of being civil in a civil society.
They already blocked you lol, you're screaming into the void.
They didn't block me, I can see the profile and all the comments.
Blocking on Lemmy doesn't work like that, it's not like reddit where it's both ways, it just means they can't see you
You're funny. You don't know what else to say 😂
"I don't have facts so I'm just going to stick to my unfunded opinion in line with what my western regime told me what happened." That shit don't work with ML people.
Always know what they're talking about, and can back it up.
See, the mistake you made was assuming anyone here is capable of understanding how nuanced debate works. It’s all or nothing around here. And if you so much as merely imply that communism/russia/authoritarianism/china is flawed in any way-
You get your comment removed and face the possibility of having you yourself removed.
I’d strongly suggest you search elsewhere if you’re looking for an actual conversation on topics like this, because speaking southward in a northbound wind-tunnel won’t ever result in anyone getting the message.
We just refuse to dance to a bunch of removedlibs tune. Fuck off to Reddit and libjerk yourself to Hillary Clinton/AOC/Bernie/KKKamala Harris if you have a problem with that.
I'm honestly surprised they're still up
It’s not a school night.
Nice "nuanced debate"
Oh make no mistake, I have no desire whatsoever to waste my time trying to illustrate the concept of nuance in a discussion here. Whether it be about politics or government operated socio-economic systems- I’ve been on lemmy long enough to see how you all operate here, and debate on these topics is an exercise is abject futility.
I’m simply here, for no other purpose than to warn a fellow user before they fall victim to the time-sink that is debating with pseudo-socialists and communists….
Nothing more.
Now, go ahead with your bait tactics. I love seeing what little tricks you all try to use to goad me into the argument you crave so dearly.
You cowardly little worm. You know you can't actually defend your position so you're going to proudly declare that you're just inherently right and nuanced and just the smartest little boy, and therefor everyone who disagrees with you is just inherently wrong and stupid. Strip away all of your reddit brained pseudo-intellectual buzzword bullshit and you're just a child throwing a tantrum because everyone here didn't coddle you and call you the cleverest little guy.
Absolute. Coward.
It’s like I can predict the future! (Naaah. It’s just that you’re so darned predictable!)
Oh, to add:
Rule 1 says to be “civil and nice” but we both know that only pertains to people on the other side of your argument.
Why do losers insist on talking like knock off Joss Whedon characters?
Yeah, turns out you shouldn't expect people to be civil and nice to you when you have been extremely uncivil and rude to them yourself, dumb-ass.
I wasn't sure, so I went ahead and I checked the guest-list for this specific corner of the discussion and surprisingly- you’re not on it. Meaning- No one invited you to come here and pretend that you have any part in it.
Yet here you are, accusing me of being uncivil in response to your little temper-tantrum?
I get the feeling that there’d be far less people like you around here if self-awareness was implemented as mandatory curriculum. But I digress….
As for your disdain of my penchant for colorful parlance? Well, verily without prompt, I perpend that though mayest o’er-rauhot thine aversion to proclivity and hastily fornicate thyself with nigh but the expertly expedience of one so deserved of such an unpregnant act.
And now, so as to avoid having to suffered the slings and arrows of your outrageous aspersions,
I bid thee….
a day.
Good lord you people are dorks. Are you posting from inside a locker?
And no, I'm not reading that screed. If you had the time to post that you had the time to actually respond to arguments, rather than smugly declare yourself the smartest boy in school.
Neat!
Touché