this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2025
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Under this scenario Russia would have military and economic control of occupied Ukraine under its own governing body, imitating Israel’s de facto rule of Palestinian territory seized from Jordan in 1967.

...

Witkoff, who is also tasked by Trump with bringing peace to the Middle East, is understood to support the idea, which the Americans believe circumvents barriers in the Ukrainian constitution to ceding territory without holding an “all-Ukraine” referendum.

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[–] cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 27 points 19 hours ago (16 children)

They really think Ukrainians are that stupid, don't they.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 13 points 18 hours ago (15 children)

It isn't a question of stupidity. It's a question of power.

Without Western arms and armor to hold territory, both Israel and Russia can just seize the land and kill anyone who objects.

Ukrainians can know it's bullshit in the same way the Palestinians (or Armenians or Tutsis or Rohingra Muslims) can know they are getting a raw deal. But what are they going to do about it, except eat lead?

[–] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 0 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

Ukrainians are exceptionally innovative on the battlefield. The longer this drags on, the more likely Russia will lose. Putin needs a win for internal optics just as much as Ukraine needs arms and fighters.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 2 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, they're outnumbered by more than an order of magnitude. They're getting ground down as time goes on, and for all its stupidity the Russian military is not small or fragile. Basically, the Russians only have to win once to win, Ukraine has to survive every month that goes by, time after time.

The good guys don't always win. Just ask the Palestinians.

[–] Slotos@feddit.nl 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Russian allies also don’t give a fuck about red lines.

Whereas Ukraine’s allies were so unwilling to commit, that the war that could’ve been finished in the first year is increasingly likely to transition into EU invasion.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 3 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Yeah. It's a fucking disgrace.

Read "Sky Over Kharkiv" for some generally excellent picture of the war from the Ukraine perspective, with some occasional bitterness about the cowardice and apathy of all the Western allies about helping Ukraine to any pivotal extent.

Dan Ellsberg also had some great writing about how this all functions from the POV inside the Western military machine. He called it "the stalemate machine": We're motivated enough to help you not lose, but not motivated enough to let you win. And so, you just keep dying, month after month and year after year.

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