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Proxmox or Docker? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) by communism@lemmy.ml to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

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I have a server with a bunch of services just as Docker containers. I see that Proxmox is popular among the self-hosting community. I was wondering why?

I understand that running things in a VM provides better security than running them in a container. But is the difference so important given the relatively low risk that an exploit happens inside a container that leads to doing damage to the host machine?

There's also obviously the additional overhead of using Proxmox. It wouldn't be an issue for me as I should have enough resources to, say replace all my Docker containers with VMs. I'm more wondering if the security difference is so massive, or if there is another reason I'm missing why people use Proxmox.

Or am I misunderstanding how people use Proxmox? I was assuming people would use it like how you use Docker, i.e. different services get their own VM/container. If you have a different kind of setup I'd be interested in hearing it.

Edit: I would appreciate if people stop being pedantic and actually read the post. Obviously I am aware that you can run containers in VMs, or containers on bare metal alongside VMs. That's not what the question is and you know it.

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[–] lucid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What did you find to be incompatible between proxmox and docker? I get that it's essentially an extra layer of complexity if all you're doing is running docker containers, but I don't see how that makes them incompatible.

[–] 4am@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Docker in LXC can be a pain, especially when using backups as the Overlay2 filesystems don’t really jive with the way Proxmox does backups. And forget about running Docker in an unprivileged LXC.

Running in a VM is perfectly fine though; not sure what issues anyone has there. I ran on big beefy servers with 24 cores and tons of RAM though.

It was nice to be able to move my services between machines using a live migration while doing updates though; but again you have to be set up for that. My entire network was managed with twin OPNSense routers as VMs in Proxmox; they handled their own failover and so I could just shut down one at a time to run updates, even to Proxmox itself, and when it came back up then I could work on the other one. But, I wanted to learn all that and have zero downtime so the wife wouldn’t get mad every time I botched something (which, especially in the beginning, was often)

If you don’t have the money or time and just have one server box with a normal amount of RAM and disk; Proxmox is probably overkill unless you want to experiment with VMs or Linux containers. It’s an awesome product and I will sing its praises all day, but if you just want some docker containers you can make a far simpler setup; although I will say that the “overhead” is way less than you might think. It’s just more complicated (not hard, there’s just more going on than vanilla Debian or something)

[–] non_burglar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That thing about docker being so badly behaved in unprivileged containers seems to be a proxmox problem, not an LXC problem, as I've discovered running LXC in a non-proxmox environment.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I run a majority of my docker containers within an unprivileged LXC, even gpu pass through and it works great.

[–] non_burglar@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

On what platform?

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago

Proxmox with Ubuntu as the LXC, essentially only docker containers on it.

[–] 4am@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago

That’s unfortunate. I know they do change some things for both security hardening as well as for convinience of the platform, it’s a double-edged sword apparently.