this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2025
111 points (97.4% liked)
Aotearoa / New Zealand
2035 readers
18 users here now
Kia ora and welcome to !newzealand, a place to share and discuss anything about Aotearoa in general
- For politics , please use !politics@lemmy.nz
- Shitposts, circlejerks, memes, and non-NZ topics belong in !offtopic@lemmy.nz
- If you need help using Lemmy.nz, go to !support@lemmy.nz
- NZ regional and special interest communities
Rules:
FAQ ~ NZ Community List ~ Join Matrix chatroom
Banner image by Bernard Spragg
Got an idea for next month's banner?
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I live in New Zealand. We don't do tax returns here. Our taxes are automatically deducted from our salaries.
If I lived in Australia and if I had kept the receipts for every item I bought that I used at work and if the deductions of all those things would make a measurable impact on the taxes I paid I would do that.
Revenue is income. Income is not profit. Surely as an adult who has filed taxes you know this.
Ok then why can't I deduct all my expenses for living and pay taxes only on the amount left? If a business gets to deduct the equipment they buy then I should be able to deduct all the food and clothes that I but. If a business gets to deduct their utilities I should be able to deduct my utilities. If a business gets to deduct the amount they pay employees and contractors I should be able to deduct any money I pay to tradies.
Why should I be punished for paying taxes on all my income while a business pays only a tiny percent of their income?
Tax is automatically deducted from our salaries here too, but you still have to lodge a tax return every year. This is where you claim all your deductions from the previous 12 months.
Definitions matter. Google the definitions of revenue and income in regards to businesses.
Guess what? You can if the utilities are used for your work, such as working from home.
As for the rest……did you miss the example I just wrote out for you? The one about paying tax on revenue vs profit? Did you see it but you just didn’t understand it?
We don't do that here typically.
I know. That's why I say there is a difference between revenue and profit.
I need them to live so they are expenses I need for work. Same goes for food, transportation, clothing, shelter etc.
I should be able to deduct all of those expenses from my income.
So no one should ever pay any tax is what you’re saying?
You also still haven’t addressed my tax-on-revenue vs tax-on-profit example for businesses either. Could you please do that now, or there’s no point continuing this because you can’t understand why the difference exists.
Again why do you resort to lying? Why are you being so dishonest? Do you think acting in a sleazy dishonest way like this makes you look good or wins arguments?
When did I say nobody should ever pay taxes? Why did you feel compelled to lie like this?
All I am saying is that humans should be given the same affordances as businesses. If I don't eat or drink or have clothes to wear I go out of business. I die. I should be able to deduct every penny I spend on anything that keeps me alive.
It's doubly futile when you continually lie about what I am saying. Shame on you. Stop being such a dishonest sleazeball and have an adult conversation.
I’m no lying- I’m using what you said - that people should be able to deduct all their expenses including food/clothing/transport/housing/etc from their income and only pay tax on their “profit”, which would result in pretty much no one ever paying any tax.
Answer my questions about the example I gave you. Why do you continue to avoid it? Is it because you know you fucked up?
No it wouldn't. They would pay taxes on any money left over after all that just like businesses do.
I did answer you. You keep insisting that income is profits which it clearly isn't. Profits is what's left over after you pay all your expenses.
No, you did not answer my example and questions.
Do you understand why businesses couldn’t pay tax on revenue?
As for income/profits, you’re just getting yourself all confused. When you earn an income from a job, you pay tax on the profit after you’ve deducted your costs. This is what your tax return is - your chance to claim all your costs that you paid in earning that income, thereby reducing the taxable income. You’re just getting confused because the tax is automatically taken out every pay.
In the made up numbers you presented?
This is a false statement. I do not get to deduct the costs of my food, babysitter, drink, transportation, clothes etc. I should be able to deduct all my costs like a business does. A business gets to deduct ALL their costs. Every single penny.
No I am not. I should be able to deduct every penny I need to survive just like a business does.
Those are not costs associated with your job, that’s why you can’t deduct them.
A business gets to deduct “all” its costs because all the costs are associated with the business. There are laws around this, and no, not everything can be deducted.
Yes, that’s how examples work. Do you think the numbers are “wrong”? The prices and margin that I gave for a PC build are very reasonable and realistic.
Answer my questions from my example. Last chance then you’re blocked as you’re clearly not capable of intelligent debate.
They are associated with my job because if I don't have them I can't do my job.
See above. If I don't eat I can't do my job.
I think your example is silly. There is no reason we can't have the exact same tax structure for businesses as we do for individuals. We could set up tiers etc. If people somehow are able to stay alive despite being taxed on revenue and having no relief whatsoever for their living costs so can businesses.
Oh my god. Some rando on the internet on a web site ten people use is going to block me because I don't buy into his ideology. Whatever shall I do? I will be so despondent!
I answered your question multiple times. It's just that your zealotry and inability to think outside the box causes you to reject the answer.
Answer my questions about my example.
You can’t because they prove you wrong.
I answered it multiple times. You just don’t like the answer.
What you are really saying is “agree with me”
You didn’t answer it. You didn’t explain how a business can pay tax on revenue without going bankrupt since the tax rate is significantly higher than almost every companies profit margin.
I did answer it. I answered it two ways. One was that we could adjust the rates and tier them like we do for people. The other is that we could keep it the same but give the same benefits to people.
You don't like either answer so you keep lashing out like a child and throwing a tantrum and threatening me with futile useless gestures.
Grow up and act like an adult.
If a business gets to deduct their rent so should I. if a business gets to deduct their utilities so should I. if a business gets to deduct their mortgage so should I. If a business gets to depreciate their equipment and appliances so should I.
It's a simple fucking answer but you just don't like it because you think businesses should be taxed less than you and me.
Businesses aren’t people. Revenue isn’t personal income.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
I don't care if businesses are not people. That's not the topic. The topic is why they get to deduct expenses that I am not allowed to deduct.
And the reasons why they are all explained in my example that you don’t seem to understand.
You said a bunch of things. None of them made any sense.
Try again.
Why shouldn't I be allowed to deduct my utilities and rent just like a business does.
Because you’re not a business. None of those are costs associated with your job. If you didn’t have your job you would still be paying for those things.
How do you not understand this? Do unemployed people not need to eat or pay rent?
I know. That's not relevant.
If I don't eat, if I don't have a place to live, if I can't use electricity or water or sewer I can't do my job.
If I didn't have a job I wouldn't be paying rent or utilities right?
how do they eat? Where do they get the money to eat? Do they pay taxes on that money?
As always, missed the point.
You need to eat and pay rent even when you don’t have a job, therefore they’re not costs related to your income.
How do I eat and pay rent if I don't have a job?
That requires money right?
Where do I get that money?
Do I pay taxes on that money?
Do I need to eat and stay alive in order to get that income?
This is like talking to a brick wall. If you don’t have a job you still have those costs, so that means those costs are not work related so can’t be claimed as tax deductions.
Let's see if I can break it down so that even you can understand it.
If I don't have any income I can't eat and will die.
If I have any income and I spend any of that income on food then any taxes I pay on that income I should be able to deduct the cost of that food because without that food I won't be able to pay taxes because I will be dead.
Any food I eat is absolutely related to any income I get. Without income I have no food and I die. Without food I will die and will not earn (or aquire) income. My ability to get income is 100% dependent on the cost of the food. It's absolutely related.
No food == no income.
got it?
Plenty of people don't have any income and can still eat and don't die. This alone proves you wrong.
Are you talking about children?
How do people buy food without any money?
Do you think everyone lives paycheque to paycheque?
Most people are in debt so they actually spend more than they make. NZ has amongst the highest personal debt in the world.
But your point is irrelevant.
if you have money to buy food you will need to pay taxes. If you are tapping into savings you are earning interest and that's income. if you are selling things to make ends meet that's income. If you are on the dole then that's income. Hell if people gift you things that may also be counted as income.
The point is no food == no income. If you die of starvation then you will not earn income. Any income you do earn depends 100% on you eating and staying alive.
The fact this simple fact is unable to penetrate your brain shows how much your brain has been calcified by ideology.
No, staying alive depends on eating. You don't need a job to be able to eat - people survived for thousands of years without jobs and money.
The irony is just delicious.
The fact that your argument only applies to pre human civilization era should give you a clue that it's not a good one.
Does every unemployed person just……die?
The ones that don't eat do.
Others may try and get food by other means. For example some may go on the dole and get money from the government (which they have to pay taxes on). Some may become beggars and live in the street which is actually a lot of work and technically they have to declare that income and pay taxes on it. Some may resort to crime in order to get money and again that's work and any money they earn is technically taxable. Some people may resort to prostitution in order to get money and again that is also work and is also taxable income.
But the fact that you keep denying over and over again is that people that don't eat die and that dead people are unable to work. Being employed depends 100% on being able to eat food.
You fundamentally don’t understand how any of this works. You’re beyond help. Bye.
No I understand that it's not possible to work if you starve to death. It's you who seem to be struggling with that concept.