this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2025
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Cwtch. XMPP. Matrix. SimpleX. Quiet. Delta Chat. Arcane Chat. Revolt. Briar. Meshtastic. etc. etc. etc.
Aren’t most of those requiring dedicated setup? How does that work without a pre-existing communication channel such as email to prep for them? You walk to every party you need to integrate?
Sorry, I don't understand the words you're using. Some of them are peer to peer. Some of them use servers which can be hosted by individuals. Some of them work locally over Bluetooth or WiFi.
Damn. They didn’t seem so wild especially compared to the flow of yours. All mediums / techs you listed are complex technologies that take efforts to setup. Compared to the ubiquitousness of email. How do you propose to make that as available to the baseline human being?
Email is much more difficult to configure than most of these services. Some of them require no configuration at all. You just open the app, type in the recipient's address, and Bob's your uncle.
For others, it's already available through community projects like AdminForge and Disroot.
Users don’t need to configure email that’s kind of the point… and the receiving side of most of your techs still had to eventually setup the server side right? Adminforge is Linux tutorials, hardly something for the basic user. And disroot has not the best reputation if I can trust the few top links in my search results due to its gtc where they mentioned that they would collaborate in criminal investigations as well.
Users don't "need" to configure these services either. That's the entire point.
You can either configure it yourself, or use someone else's that has configured it for you. Or you can choose one of the p2p apps that simply don't require any configuration. These are your choices.
AdminForge runs a variety of services for public use.
Much like Proton (and every other company/org), they have to either choose to comply or close up shop.
But then you need to trust another party which is just moving the problem along…
These are your choices. There's no other way.
But that was the entire point from the first reply. If you don't trust external hosts, there is nothing for you.
You already forgot the other choices...
Self hosting and p2p
The "baseline human being" can easily set up most of those.
You should consider reviewing your baseline to integrate actual persons. Some need help to use WhatsApp so go figure how they would fare with most of those.
Are people that have trouble using Whatsapp typically overlapping with people looking for E2EE anonymous communications?
You can't criticize software for being too hard for "baseline human beings" when your baseline is apparently boomers who lived most of their lives before the internet was widely available.
Ah no I was assuming we need privacy for everyone… but this would work as well. When working in responsible disclosure this is very much a problem. You want those channels open as wide as possible and as easy as possible.
And to a large extent I suspect boomers were a bit more into systems and protocols than the new gens.
But keep on…
Most of those still rely on some company to host a server, except Briar, and in practice most Briar users are still relying on companies to access Tor to connect.
They are more robust, not perfect.
None of them require a company to host a server. That was my entire point.
Explain how you'd use Delta Chat without a server, please? I may have misunderstood its need for a mailserver when I tried it.
I didn't say without a server, I said without a company-hosted server.
How do you even get a non-company-hosted server now? Public bodies don't host services for outsiders much any more and aren't really safe places for privacy in this type of case anyway.
they typed out on their computer capable of hosting anything they want
You run your own or just choose from a variety of publicly-available ones.
Run your own? Great, but you'll almost certainly be getting a company to connect it up.
Publicly available from whom? Companies!
I may sometimes wish community-owned internet became the norm, but it didn't, so companies are involved almost everywhere.
I run several of these services with no company involved.
Publicly available from, as I said, individuals.
I'm sceptical. Name me a server and I'll show you a company involved.
How about infosec.pub?
infosec.pub appears to be in Hetzner Online GmbH's Falkenstein hosting. They probably also own the hardware.
I dunno man, the problem with most private servers is that they're just that. I don't know where they are or who is hosting them. I only know where mine is.