this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2025
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So did you just miss all the material conditions for that famine you're so concerned about, and the recovery from those conditions creating hope for NK's future in contrast to SK, or are you just ignoring those parts so you can feel justified in your browbeating and characterization of the DPRK as a failed authoritarian state that is actually deserving of the previously mentioned conditions that caused the famine.
I don't see how 34K people "defecting" in only one direction proves anything beyond the fact that economic conditions were pretty tough, which isn't in dispute. Honestly that 0.13% is a pretty low figure if we're supposed to believe that, on top of the economic hardship, their "authoritarian state" is so brutal as to be "worse than the disease" that has more and more resulted in south koreans having so little hope for the future that they're ceasing to bring children into the world.
"So did you just miss all the material conditions for that famine you’re so concerned about... or are you just ignoring those parts..."
No one is ignoring the shock of the Soviet collapse or the fact that the Korean peninsula's best farmland is in the South. But here's where the logic fails:
The System is the Condition: External shocks (like the USSR collapsing) expose the fragility of a system. When that system is designed around the Juche farming philosophy—which prioritized ideology (self-sufficiency) over sound agronomy, misallocated resources to the military (Songun policy), and was reliant on Soviet chemical fertilizers—the ensuing catastrophe is internal mismanagement. A competent state adapts to external shocks; a failing state collapses internally.
The Blame Game: You're arguing that because the terrain is bad and the Soviets left, the state is excused from letting millions starve. That's a moral and political failure, not just a weather problem.
"So did you just miss all the material conditions for that famine you’re so concerned about... or are you just ignoring those parts..."
No one is ignoring the shock of the Soviet collapse or the fact that the Korean peninsula's best farmland is in the South. But here's where the logic fails:
The System is the Condition: External shocks (like the USSR collapsing) expose the fragility of a system. When that system is designed around the Juche farming philosophy—which prioritized ideology (self-sufficiency) over sound agronomy, misallocated resources to the military (Songun policy), and was reliant on Soviet chemical fertilizers—the ensuing catastrophe is internal mismanagement. A competent state adapts to external shocks; a failing state collapses internally.
The Blame Game: You're arguing that because the terrain is bad and the Soviets left, the state is excused from letting millions starve. That's a moral and political failure, not just a weather problem.
"their “authoritarian state” is so brutal as to be “worse than the disease” that has more and more resulted in south koreans having so little hope for the future that they’re ceasing to bring children into the world."
You're trying to draw a false equivalence between two completely different types of suffering:
South Korea's Suffering: Financial, psychological, and existential stress driven by hyper-competition, inequality, and high cost of living. It leads to a demographic choice (not having kids).
North Korea's Suffering: Physical risk, poverty, chronic hunger, and total political repression. It leads to desperate, life-risking flight (defection) or starvation.
You cannot logically argue that a society where people choose not to have children because of economic stress is fundamentally "less hopeful" than a society where people starve to death or risk execution to leave. The South needs serious social reform, but the North needs systemic human liberation.