For all his great work on Linux (and git and others) Torvalds was never into activism so much. He declined GPLv3 (yes it would be impossible to get all contributors to sign for it). He's always been an "open source pragmatist", which is fine I guess. And I really respect his work. But at these important political points, we need someone like Stallman who has consistently proven to be on the right side of the debate
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Lmao. This went over exactly how i expected here. Oh well ludites gonna ludite.
I seen alot of people say "AI is just a tool" ngl There is nothing wrong with that it's just a little overused
There is nothing wrong with that it’s just a little overused
That's one of the problems of companies devaluing and abusing language so much that words are in danger to lose any meaning. It is a difference however whether Torvalds uses such a word, or a corporation advertising bullshit. It is really clear that corporations want to replace software developers.
It feels like marketing speech to me at this point. Like a new form of "it's the newest model."
Hot Take: IMO, using generated code is fine, if it goes through the exact same due diligance as normal code. (unit tests, is the algo optimised, etc.)
Only if you don't care about your own cognitive decline, property theft, and climate damage
the destruction of the consumer electronics market ...
Exactly, the argument that whether the code was written entirely by hand or produced by an LLM is the wrong thing to focus on. To see why, we have to consider how software development actually works at scale.
There's a view that code written by hand has to be more intentional, almost has to be by definition since it requires the maintainer to actually put it in there themselves. That's, of course, true but once a project grows past a certain size or it has multiple maintainers, nobody really has the totality of the code in their heads. So, any new code that's added is always done with limited understanding. Code being written by hand should not be equated with it expressing the intent faithfully; if that were the case, then we'd never have software bugs. Humans make mistakes all the time as is clearly evidenced by there being no lack of buggy code predating LLM use.
I'm also not intimately familiar with most of the code in the projects I've been maintaining over the years. Any code I've written even a few months ago might as well have been written by someone else. When I need to make changes, I read through the code and figure out what it's doing, and I rely on the test harness to make sure I don't introduce regressions.
It's simply not feasible for humans to keep the entirety of large projects in their heads all at once. When you're working on a project, you're constantly forgetting and relearning code as you go. And the situation is even worse for projects where multiple people work together where nobody knows what everyone else was thinking. We look at the code and try to build up sufficient context in our heads to make the necessary changes. When we misjudge that context or misunderstand existing code, then we end up making mistakes.
The way we judge whether projects are actually solid is by the level of specification and testing they have, the experience of the developers, and amount of usage they see in the wild. All of these same tools work just as well with LLM generated code as they do with code written by hand.
Farming out design decisions to the LLM without reviewing the output or doing proper testing will almost certainly produce low quality code, but that is no different from somebody just slapping some code together to make a kludge rather than really thinking through a problem. Working with LLMs does not mean farming out your thinking to the machine. What these tools actually do is automate the mechanical aspect of producing the code. Once it is written, you can read it, understand it, and change it as you would with any other code.
I don’t generally take issue LLMs used as a tool, but I do have a huge problem with lazy slop slingers. I also don’t like that the frontier models are closed source and rent-seeking, especially when they were trained on copyleft code and by all rights should themselves be open source if they were respecting the licenses. I’d think Linus would have something to say about that.
IMO, a decent philosophy is that LLMs can be useful tools, but if anyone can tell you used a LLM, you failed. People should have a healthy fear of being ridiculed for outsourcing their critical thinking. Anyone using a ton of tokens shouldn’t be commended; instead, the quality of their work should be called into question because they’re likely using LLMs as a crutch instead of a tool. Commits by Claude probably mean the person didn’t review the diff to clean up the slop, and also probably didn’t understand the changes well enough to write a clear commit message themselves. I wouldn’t want to see any commits crediting Claude in the Linux kernel.
Edit:
I’d also think that if Linus likes LLMs and wants to see quality tech democratized, he’d be advocating for FOSS LLMs under the Linux foundation where all code and training data are open source. What we have now with Anthropic and “OpenAI” is the equivalent of cloud-hosted Windows, and open weight models like Qwen are more like Windows XP in that they can be run locally, but they’re still proprietary and can’t be inspected, modified, or built upon. We need the Linux of LLMs.
Because it's not like natural intelligence is always all that great either.
Wouldn’t be a proper Linus post without calling everyone else an idiot.
Didn’t call everyone an idiot, but he’s not wrong, humans makes mistakes all the time
Yes, but allowing floodgates of AI work to come in it lowers the bar and allow more mistakes to flow in.
Just because humans make mistakes doesn't mean we are ok with shipping mistakes
He's not saying that, he is saying LLMs are a tool and can therefore be used. He's not saying AI generated code gets a free pass into the kernel just because an LLM says it looks good.
We pretty much have to make some mistakes in order to learn.
Being overly afraid of making a mistake is a good way to paralize oneself.
Yes but AI doesn't exactly learn like we do. It's not about being afraid of mistakes. It's about mistakes being made with no real accountability and a system that cannot critically think the same way a human can. AI can process massive amounts of information faster than us but it cannot apply knowledge the same way we can.
TL;DR
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
In response to
I expect maintainers who want to act on sashiko reviews to triage and verify them first before bothering authors, yes.