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LLMs suck at writing code, but they are absolutely amazing at reading code and finding bugs. I am firmly against the usage of LLMs to write anything, but they have a place as a diagnostics tool when verified by a human.
There are already several large projects that have hundreds of thousands of users and those projects were almost completely vibe coded. It's almost the entire retro "recomp" scene now.
Opus-class and higher models are actually great at writing code, but maybe it's language dependent? I primarily work in TypeScript.
I'm not terribly concerned if people write code and test it with AI, so long as they verify the results themselves.
I recently saw someone try to add a PR to something on github with thousands of lines of changes and then they got mad when people didn't want to do the free labour verifying it. That is a bullshit use of AI
The lemmysphere will never agree
More than anything, it depends on the developer using it. In my experience, most are just slop shovelers that don't read or review what Claude does. Then it falls on the PR reviewer (me) to be an asshole: Did you review your own code? Do you understand what this part over here does? Why did you choose this method versus alternatives?
Unless you tell Claude/Opus otherwise, it's not going to take the initiative to refactor things, tidy up parts it didn't touch, or hell, it won't even spellcheck things. Can you really call it a language model if it outputs misspelled words? Its unit tests are great boilerplate but never comprehensive enough for me.
Claude is the developer that puts zero pride or effort in their work beyond the bare minimum to not get fired.
Line completion is pretty damn handy, it's when you start asking for whole functions that things go downhill
Yeah I've been using LLM's in Rider for over a decade. I don't have a problem with LLM's. I do have a problem with how they're currently used, and how people keep trying to use them to replace their own thinking.
I think they have a place in the coding scene, a limited niche place, but a place none the less. They just aren't a replacement for software engineers. Architecture and intention are the big differences to me. An LLM cannot understand intention, it just makes statistical guesses that are often wrong.
People who are vehemently against any form of AI will be left behind. That may be difficult to hear, and even more difficult to accept, but that is the cold, hard, truth.
Its a tool, and just like any tool it has uses. It can be used inappropriately, and it's valid to criticize those instances. But if you are plugging your ears and going "Lalala!" when people talk about actual valid use cases, or stubbornly pretending that it has none, you will be left behind.
You will be like office employees from the 80's and 90's who refused to use a computer and then suddenly found themselves without a job. It's your choice if you use it or not. It's also every company's choice to not hire you because of your unwillingness to adapt.
If you haven't learned it yet, this is your warning and your wake-up call: Learn how to use AI now, or find a different career. It's not going away, no matter how much you may bitch and moan. There will soon be two classes of people, those who learned how to use this emerging technology, and those who refused. Things will be much harder for that second group.
I don't say this to be snarky or smug. I hate AI myself, but I also recognize how fucking stupid I'd have to be to refuse to use it. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's also the truth.
good thing that downvotes can only be used to suppress narratives on lemmy. lol
not to be an AI bootlicker, but i don't get why people treat AI-generated code like it's the Plague 2. it's not; all code is constrained by the programming language, and so it either implements the feature correctly... or it doesn't. yes, human review is undeniably important, but other than that, AI-generated code and human code is still all logic at the end of the day
Over the past 5 years specifically, nearly every single piece of software I use from OS, to apps, to even legacy programs I trusted for decades have started to produce more bugs, are less stable, and less reliable.
At the same time, AI has been forced on people and AI using devs are proliferating while we still lack an understanding of AIs cognitive affects on us.
What exactly am I supposed to think? That all the programmers pushing AI on me like Crypto Bros while their programs work worse are smart, well intentioned people?
You can say whatever you want, I use the software, shits gotten absolutely terrible lately, and it's not just the purposefully enshitified software either.
because it's a perfect storm. The way it's being managed by businesses is causing :
So, the tool is getting a bad rep. never mind that for over a decade, machine learning was something that was tinkered away and thought of as "one day this is going to be amazing", now it's being wielded by assholes trying to be TRILLIONAIRES and people are losing their jobs, access to technology, political and environmental collapse.
To top it off, before you could contextualise ML in statistics and say "it's a work in progress, some things are not quite right" but now you have ads saying "Replace your humans with our AI/Robots" as if it's 100% reliable, a drop in replacement and not going to provide any social ills.
Exactly. The concept of an LLM is perfectly fine, we've had its precursors like markov chains and neural nets for decades, the issue is how their being created and used these days, particularly the scale of it. LLMs are the shiny new toy the way blockchains were previously, so all the tech bros and utterly clueless CEOs are rushing out to embrace the hot new thing and demand it be shoved into every nook and crany because they think if they don't they might not make every last cent they possibly might.
Oh. No. I'm sorry, unrelated to the ai debate, but I have to correct this. Software architecture is intensely not raw logic sequences like you learn in uni. Everything before compilation is cooperative abstract modeling that does not necessarily impose any change at all in the binary. You are essentially teaching laymen that all programming languages for the same plattform are a creative choice, that extensibility, robustness, scaling or maintenance are just completely imagined fields of research. I'm sorry but that statement is complete nonsense misinformation. The binary itself, while it's a stretch; sure, in a way it can be considered only logic. From a certain angle. But that viewpoint is actively unhelpful for understanding what code is. The product is always so much more than the machine code. Consider writing raw arm instructions vs the obfuscated js that our engines churns through that decides most of our executing logic. All that is architecture and affects output only through the lens of the machine code. You have to enter the "code“ any time anything breaks, or is updated, if even a single thing is not as expected, or if you wanted to iterate on the program, or collaborate, you have to move into abstract land and then the architecture matters. The term spaghetti code does not mean that the logic is messy. The compiler wil usually remove most such mistakes. Instead the whole architecture, the "blueprint" the "workbench" is the magic of code, even if it is often obscure for the user is much more important for their experience than the raw logic.
I think the people most extreme about it haven't done much development.
Or they have, professionally, and associate it with very real AI psychosis at work.
Or they're in school and see LLMs ruining the student body, as we've seen some in other Lemmy posts.
It all comes down to ethical tool sourcing, and using those tools in moderation, responsibly. Like all sorts of other automation/technology that's popped up in programming...
But I guess I'm saying I can sympathize with absolute "no-LLM-code" positions, too. The way true vibe-coding has been peddled to the public really has done tremendous damage, and honestly the space deserves the negative attention its getting, and then some.
The fact of the matter is as an AI hater I do actually trust AI generated code if run through the right people. I just don't know when the people I trust will trust the AI more than themselves, and that's part of the worry. Are they going to be as diligent on checking their AIs bug fix #125 if the first 124 were perfect? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly am not trusting AI code in the hands of vibe coders who have no idea what they're doing and are only contributing to a project because it happens to allow AI contributions.
I also just don't like LLMs in general, the way they collected data, the way they were trained on data, the way they are affecting communities across the globe, and the harm the people at the top of these companies are doing, not to mention the job loss which is really not a main concern of mine. I don't like the idea of people using tools that are so harmful if it can be avoided.
