Asklemmy

Ask them why they have a bathroom door.

Unlock your phone, open WhatsApp, hand it to me.

My go to was typically pointing to MLK and COINTELPRO.

"That's sad"

You could make a super long argument against this but I think there's a few simple points (that you can use any number of, you don't really need all of these at once for most people) that usually get it across to people, at least from my experience.

There's the moral/emotional argument:

"You do have something to hide. Wanna unlock your phone and let me go through all your messages/photos/emails, leave the bathroom door open all the time, and never close your blinds? Even if you aren't doing something illegal AND have no problem with me seeing all your conversations and data, privacy is still a comfort for many people"

...and there's the monetary arguments:

"If a company is collecting that data, it's because they make money off it. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and it's the only reason Google, Facebook, etc can physically exist. If they know more about you, they can manipulate you into spending money with advertisers easier, allow political campaigns to manipulate your opinion more effectively, etc"

"You might not have a problem with how your data is used now, but if the law changes, or a corporation decides to do something different, suddenly data about your health and finances that was just for ads might then become a way to increase your health insurance pricing to the max you can afford"

Meta are harvesting your friends data that you have, contacts, birthdays, addresses etc. Using these platforms means that you are probably sharing friends data without their consent just because you don’t care about your own.

Anyway that’s how I would put it to them.

Well, maybe they actually do have nothing to hide? I've recently realised that people who are dependent on Big Tech just don't value their privacy the same way babies don't care about being naked in front of other people. If you hand over the responsibility for your life to somebody else, you kind of hand over yourself, too, and there's no point in seeking privacy anymore. So the actual issue is people's passiveness and lack of agency in their interaction with tech. If they embrace FOSS, that is being a creator and not just a consumer in the world of software, they'll start valuing their privacy, just like a teenager learning to be independent simultaneously develops the need for having their own boundaries.

Saying privacy doesn't matter because you have nothing to hide is like saying free speech doesn't matter because you have nothing to say

"Okay, whip it out" and then start unzipping your fly.

Sometimes asking if their private conversations (about spouse or kids) conversation would be different with an active observer in the room. Or if they are OK with a stranger at each window watching you. But some see that as paranoia, so it is fruitless.

The real issue is things like: how ICE is requesting records without subpoenas from telecom industries and they comply. Which lets them target protestors, and arrest them an trumped up charges. That's the slide into 1984 distopia. But it still comes off as paranoid.

"post hole"

I don't really care how much they know about me specifically. But I'm very worried how much they know about all of us.

Theres a quote something along the lines of

“I have nothing to hide; I simply don’t trust someone else’s version of justice." When they want to look though my things.

Just because what you do in your home city is right and legal, doesnt mean it is when you travel, when other governments look at you, when other organizations target you. Nothing to hide just means the collective "they" have more on you specifically. Abortions are a perfect example. Get an abortion in a state that supports it, congrats your tried for murder in a state that doesnt. It doesnt matter that you had it in another place.

Also whats legal now is not garenteed to be legal in the future. Your benign photo op 20 years ago can get you in big trouble. Or just shunned (gay marriage in some places).

So yeah, its in your best interest to be annon.

If you want to be glib: "Okay then, unlock your phone and hand it to me. Also, tell me your home address, your daily route to and from work, and your last three girlfriends. Don't worry; you can trust that nobody will ever abuse this access to your life and past, because you have nothing to hide."

Even if you "have nothing to hide," a malicious or uncaring actor can use your information to disrupt your life or cause you harm. Police agencies go after the wrong people. Crazy people stalk others. Blackmailers look for opportunities to extort victims. As Cardinal Richelieu supposedly said, "give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I'll find enough to hang him."

Google/Facebook/whatever private entity are not innocent. They will happily sell information about you to whoever is willing to pay. Government agencies subpoena data from them, too.

Wikipedia has an easy entry to further reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

People had nothing hide but flock camera still put them as culprit. They had to make all the research themselves because the court believe the police and flock.

It’s not about hiding something anymore, it’s about asshole fucking civil servant doing the biding of tech oligarchs because they don’t know better

"Do you have nothing to protect?"

"Let me join you next time you need to poop then"

Ask him to live in a glass house at Madison square garden...

They should go to bathroom with doors open from now. Comfort of privacy is meaningless if they got nothing to hide, right?

It’s hard. Try to make them understand that it is not really about their data specifically, but about what these corporations can do with the aggregated data from millions of people. They can know things about us that we never told them and never wanted them, or anyone, to know. They can manipulate us into actions and behaviors that may or may not be benificial to us, that makes them the most money. They can decide who wins an election. They should not have that power.

Ask if they close the stall door while they poop.
Would they be happynif all the toilet stalls had no doors? Then use that to point out its not about hiding anything, its about having choice and agency to control what you share.

I might be guilty of using an argument like that sometimes. What I really mean is that I currently value the convenience more than my privacy. "I'm using service X because that seems the most convenient choice for me and I don't really care whether someone I won't ever meet is reading my data. But I could also use service Y if it's just as good and convenient as service X."

Point being, I'm always willing to start using a different thing as long as it works for my use case as well as (or preferably better than) the thing I'm currently using.

So, instead of trying to scare me about someone spying on me, try convincing me how the other service works better than the one I'm currently using.

No hidden thoughts that might trigger shame? Then you are not human or you've been trepanned.

If you have nothing to hide they will put things in your pockets when you aren't looking

you're the one talking about it to people and getting mad

what do you say?