Ask Lemmy

Yep, happens frequently enough to make discussion worth it in my view. People often message me and let me know that.

Have you ever changed your mind?

I often feel like debate entrenches a belief in both audience and debaters.

I think and folks have given me new perspectives. There is decent discourse that develops but not always and not even the majority. Like the rest of life you got to appreciate it when its good because its certainly not always going to be.

Yes. I have had my owned changed as well.

In my encounters it's more often that a counter argument to what I say is not wrong either. When a morsel of nuance can be introduced, we can understand each others' argument without necessarily having anyone flip around their opinion to the opposite.

However I have tried sometimes to no avail, if there's no progress after around 3 back-and-forths I end the conversation.

If you want some advice to increase your success in getting people to consider, try this: Start with the part you agree or share with the other person's perspective. Try for a "Yes... and..." if possible, or "Yes... but..." if you can't. After the and/but, that's where you can go into the difference in opinion you have.

No, I suck at it. I suck at defending my opinions with facts and logic. That is why I am always changing my opinions. It is hard to form an opinion that might work, and then find out all the reasons why it is wrong and then have to change it. I should have payed attention in school when they had us write persuasive essays.

A few times, all of which I remember being with someone who started with a point of view based on ignorance about the topic and changed their mind because they gained new knowledge and understanding. In all of the cases they didn't seem too committed to their point of view because of follow up questions and being engaged by asking for more information in more and more nuanced ways.

One person had the opinion that crime stats showed minorities committed more crimes. I presented something that explained how the stats are based on police behavior and decisions prosecutors make that lead to systemic racism. The real point that made it through was the statistic that black people are pulled over disproportionately during the day compared to night, which shows who is driving plays a part. Stop and frisk being targeted into minority neighborhoods resulting in more stops reinforced the police effect on stats.

But that only worked because they were interested in finding out more. I've never convinced anyone who dug their heels in immediately.

I have changed my opinion on exchanges between other people, which is how I learned about the cause of the bias in police stats. Hopefully I changed a few minds for the better without hearing about it as well.

No. Possibly because I have never really tried to, after realizing that:

1. People entering said debates are mostly just there to win an argument.
2. I am under no obligation to convince them that their beliefs are utterly stupid

Those who hold stupid positions aren't really the ones with a mind open enough to the position that they might in fact be in the wrong. Plus, I don't have the capacity for bullshit that such an endeavor requires.

I have long since concluded that people will not only hold stupid beliefs, but desperately cling to them and consider me not having the fortitude to put up with all the fallacies that follows as a sign that they're right.

I don't really have an audience, and I therefore don't feel like entering a debate, because debates to me seem mostly performative in an effort to gather soundbites and/or screenshots.

I'm sure you (yes, you reading this) have plenty of positions I find utterly idiotic, but I frankly don't think I'm the one who will be able to convince you. I can't educate the world, the world needs to converge on that on its own.

Yes, coming from a very conservative religious background challenging my world-view with every media and discussions I read online (reddit when it was good) I changed for the better good.

I personally like to expose myself to ideas which are contradicting my personal experience/views. It is painful, but rewarding.

Also like to use the arguments I heard/read in a debate where I agree with my 'oposition' but want to keep the conversation going. I learned the hard way, that I have to be very clear upfront about it. And the other side has to think through the arguments instead of responding with emotions.

I higly disagree on your point, discussion are required, they don't have to change either side's mind, but should build them. Also don't forget the audience, it is possible they don't have a pre existing strong opinion (or at all) on the topic.

It is very unlikely you will ever get a feedback that your opinion mattered, but it can happen, and it can change lifes.