this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2026
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A few years ago anything you wanted to search for would generate hundreds of pages of results. From sources all over. If you structured your query well you could dramatically cut down the irrelevant results and then spend a bit of time skimming through the offerings until you found your target.

Searching felt like a hunt, it could take you to far flung corners of the web, and hitting the jackpot on some obscure forum was part of the fun.

Now searching anything feels incredibly frustrating. You know what you are looking for is out there somewhere but it feels impossible getting to it. Basically we have only two main routes now, Google and Bing (and I swear Bing is just copying Google's homework). I've tried a handful of others and they all fall very short.

Something has changed dramatically under the hood.

It seems like the results are very shallow and no amount of prodding will get either search engine to produce anything besides the laziest output. Any subject has a limited pool of sites they lean on and then pretend that that's all of the Internet.

It generalizes very quickly and if you try to counter by putting things in quotations it gives up.

Even in the rare moments I've buckled and used their stupid AI, it takes even more time browbeating the program to just deliver the damned specifics.

What is going on??

How do we get our old search back?

I swear every day of trying to navigate the web feels worse than the day before.

How did we get here?

There's got to be something better, right? Or something we can do to pave a new structure that benefits the denizens of the web better than the lazy slop our tech overlords scrape off the table for us. What can we do?

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[โ€“] steve_freiheit@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've been using metasearch engines (engines that pass your query to multiple search engines so you can aggregate them easily) and the two I've been using were pretty good in my experience. 4get.ca and degoog.org.

[โ€“] MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I'll check them out, thanks

[โ€“] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 11 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I know it's not the thing you likely want to hear, but... At this point, I'm glad I switched to a paid search engine (Kagi).

Theoretically, there's nothing stopping them from enshittifying down the road. But at least for now (and hopefully the future) they are a great search engine.

They have their own index (so no relying on google/bing), and it actually works as I remember Google working 7+ years ago. Minus the ads, and plus a ton of flexibility permanently boosting/removing sites from your searches, auto-grouping/ignoring listicle-type articles in results, flagging sites as AI slop and punishing them for it,...

They even have a fediverse search "lense" that actually works really well to search Lemmy/mastodon/...

I just realized I sound like a paid shill. Sorry about that. I'm not.

[โ€“] tigerhawkvok@startrek.website 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I use Kagi too, it's great.

The other commenter corrected your index note.

What I found most illuminating was a comment by the CEO in an interview, perhaps The Verge? The TLDR of it was that Google makes money when you dwell on their site (so they want the highest ad serves per search), and a paid search engine loses money every page they have to serve you (so they want to give you your answer fast).

So, the user and Google are at odds, and the user and Kagi have the same goal.

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There was more money in showing you things than there was in helping you find things.

If you ever watched any of the saturday morning, over the air, wrestling "news" shows in the 80s and 90s, then that's all everything is now. There used to be a pretty good article about it.

[โ€“] noughtnaut@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You might try to give one of the alternative search providers a try. There's duck duck go for the USA, and Qwant for the EU.

[โ€“] Dreamcatcher@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

Important to note that Qwant still uses the Bing search index everywhere except for France and Germany, where they use the Staan search index, which is being developed together with Ecosia.

I'm sure the more people use it, the faster they can expand, though.

Using it from Finland myself, quite satisfied with it even with this Bing nonsense. Only have to use Google for VERY RARE cases.

[โ€“] Bell@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (6 children)

If you're not paying for it, then you're not the user, you're the product.

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[โ€“] d00ery@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Because it makes AI much more appealing.

No more reading about the recipe author's grandma and how the food reminds them of home. AI will extract the useful info and ignore the SEO bullshit.

[โ€“] NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

"AI" is why you now get thirty different pages talking around the topic you've searched for but not actually answering the question, reaffirming that they're talking about what you're searching for by repeating a useless bit of information about it, patting you on the back for thinking up such a nuanced topic and how only the smartest people think to ask this question, then three paragraphs of tangentially related information with an ad inbetween each one, before you find out that the page doesn't actually have the information you're after because the page was written by clankers.

Which is probably the intent of these cogsucking companies pushing this slop; flood the zone with useless trash, convince everyone that this sudden increase in quantity of websites necessitates another 900GW of data centre capacity right up in the ass of the nearest low income area.

[โ€“] krashmo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Or it might tell you to put glue in your pizza

[โ€“] RotatingParts@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The goal of a search engine is to make the company money, not to aid you in finding what you are looking for.

[โ€“] MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago

We're in between a rock and a hard place. The only way to shake the grip of enshitified companies is to either turn to government/tax backed public utility type incentives, which opens up a whole other can of worms, or lean on crowdsourcing, which is very hit or miss.

[โ€“] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago

Because the AI hallucinations are pushed ahead of traditional search engine results?

This evening I was repairing something. My google search gave an AI summary that gave two important dimensions of a part I needed. I was like "OK let's go eat"

Two hours later, because I didn't write anything down, I entered the same search verbatim and got a different AI summary missing one of the dimensions.

We have made computing non-deterministic. We're busy giving sentience to refrigerators that can't keep ice cream frozen.

[โ€“] xylogx@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[โ€“] dan@upvote.au 7 points 2 days ago

SearxNG is just a meta search engine that uses other search engines, so it'll have the same issues as the upstream search engines.

[โ€“] MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

I tried using an instance on a public page and after about a month I gave up. Maybe it was configured poorly but it was real hit or miss. Sometimes it'd deliver but just as often the results were nonsensical.

There's probably some instance that's really dialed in but I quit looking after the first go around.

[โ€“] FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Google in particular getting worse to get you to click through more results pages or to run more queries so they can sell more ads on each of those is well attested. I used Bing for a while and didn't think it was better or worse than newly bad Google. So now I use an equally shitty non-US search engine (start page) and just give up sooner.

In their defence, I think the exponentially increasing content of the internet, and the not insignificant portion that just sits there dead or unmaintained, plus the bits and bytes that just disappear as subscriptions or support run out are difficult problems. It's getting ever harder to write an algorithm to sort through that as well. That plus greed equals shit.

Pre-Google we had very shitty search results. Than Google became the Kleenex, the word everybody used. Then Google got worse. While my faith in "American Intelligence" is somewhat limited, I think we will get back to better results soon. What Google had to do (build big server farms to look at all of the internet to index it) may become trivially easy for a sufficiently good LLM eventually. Although we're not there yet. Given that it's not just Microsoft or Google fighting in that market for dominance, I live in hope that competition from OpenAI etc. lights a fire under their arses.

[โ€“] Dreamcatcher@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

non-US search engine (start page)

Startpage is owned by an American advertising company.

Try Qwant or Ecosia. They're working together to develop an independent search index (Staan) and it's already in use in France and Germany.

[โ€“] FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Startpage is owned by an American advertising company.

Eff me, really? Can you back this up? I only see a company in The Netherlands.

[โ€“] Dreamcatcher@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago

Just check their Wikipedia page.

Startpage is owned and operated by Surfboard Holding BV, which is majority owned by System1, an American internet advertising company.

[โ€“] MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Good points.

Legacy stuff is definitely getting buried under the new wave. Exacerbated by the fact that "new" sells while old "costs somebody to maintain".

Speaking of costs, I guess the free lunch is about over. Besides the cost to access, most of the web was essentially free. A little bit of banner advertising paid for a simple website. But between then and now it's becoming clear that the continued expansion of increasingly invasive marketing and data collection to pay for larger and large sites, and their complexity, is not sustainable.

[โ€“] DreamsK@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago

As others have said in the posts, you can no longer find information that was found many years ago. From my point of view, I think there are many causes. Some of them to copy from a movie would be "information is worth money". Another cause would be that the information you are looking for is no longer wanted to be searched. Because of this, I noticed that on the dark web sites there is still some information. In short, the information will be limited.

Copy - pass in your pc

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