this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2025
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[–] Vroomfondel@lemmy.ml 0 points 42 minutes ago* (last edited 39 minutes ago)

After reading the article on gamerant.com, the many comments on here and looking at the petition, I really wonder if actually so many people are delusional and/or are just missing the core point here?! (Or it is just a small crowd with much noise?) IMHO, there are better places in the world to engage and petition for. (Local communities and regional politics, for example.) But if banning that little "funny" child incest game on Steam puts you up the tree, well, ...

Are you really that offended? And why, on point? How in the world can you defend publishing (and selling) games - mostly targeted at young folks - which are quite disturbing, derangend and morally wrong in the name of "freedom" or "independence"? And call that blatantly censorship, when there are instead public guidelines by Steam and their partners? Don´t you wish for (young) people to develop good values instead of becoming delusional with child pornography, incest, violence, gore and such? What are your values here?

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 hours ago

Valve please fix

[–] MITM0@lemmy.world 21 points 4 hours ago

But we have to oppose CollectiveShout as well, as in destroy them. They're way worse than I thought

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Make your own payment processor, Gaben. It's the way.

[–] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Is that kinda what PayPal is, or was intended to be?

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 10 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah but PayPal's awful. They literally arbitrarily deny you access to your own funds. At least the banks have rules.

If someone wants to pay me something they can use it literally anything other than PayPal. I don't trust them they've stolen money from me before.

[–] diemartin@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 hours ago

I don't trust them they've stolen money from me before

Same. They stole a small amount (~10 USD), but at that time that was 2-3 days worth of groceries where I live (which would have helped a lot)

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 hours ago

PayPal is almost as pornphobic as MastercardVisa

[–] defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

Then people would have to get specific cards or crypto or whatever that aren't Visa/MasterCard in order to buy Steam games. That, of course, is if you can get banks to agree to carry "Steam cards". Either that, or everyone would need to buy Steam gift cards as an exclusive form of payment.

All of these are much less convenient than keeping your existing debit/credit card to pay for Steam games, and less convenience means less sales.

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 hours ago

Or you could just transfer funds to a steam card, then with that, but all you want.

[–] sep@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Steam does not have to only accept steampay. Tho? You fear visa and mastercard will blaclist steam?

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago

Steam removed games because visa and mastercard threatened to blaclist it, so yeah. That's the whole point.

[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

Yeah, but SteamPay is the future

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 32 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

I wish it was feasible to hve a large scale boycott of visa and mastercard. american express is already useless so it wouldn't help much to include it...

[–] defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

Or a decentralized alternative that isn't just used to scam people, that doesn't eat up insane amounts of electricity to process, and is as convenient as regular money.

In reality, private corporations should not have control over money at all. Money is printed by the local government and should be controlled by the local government. Governments generally have better free speech protections than private corporations, which have none. Obviously, free speech protections are not universal, but countries can already ban content in other ways.

[–] ctrl_alt_esc@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 hours ago

Money is not printed by the local government at all. Money is created by private banks through extending credit. And it shouldn't be controlled by the government either, that's a terrible idea.

I agree with the rest though.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Alternatives are not so hard, if you allow everyone to exchange and use every currency. Then, well, you need to pay someone selling in currency A - you pay your B's to buy some A's and you pay with them.

But there are lots of limitations on banking, some in good faith, and some to prevent mobility and make everything tracked. Possibility to track means possibility to decide who gets to do what.

I think that's why gold standard was dropped in the first place. When all money is guaranteed with gold, and gold (still does) buy money, you do have a universal currency hard to track.

With decentralized electronic currencies the problem is - you need consensus. There's no way around it at all. You can devise something to separate one consensus into a tree of subspaces, to make it more efficient in case an operation with a coin "123456" depends only on operations with coins from "123*" subspace, or something like that. Partitioned system. So then you don't need consensus on subspaces untouched by your operation. But you still can't have such an offline currency, because that depends on the finite amount of gold, while with electronic currencies double spending exists.

And I don't know if it's possible to make such an electronic currency anonymous for outside spectators. Zero-knowledge and other buzzwords are good, but I don't know how one can do this.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 132 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (4 children)

Need to petition Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, and American Express. I don't think trying to get Valve to reverse these recent changes will necessarily be effective, since they are being pressured by the payment processors and they definitely aren't going to risk not being able to effectively do business at all.

[–] dan@upvote.au 24 points 9 hours ago

The petition is directed at Visa and MasterCard. I'm not sure why the article says it's a petition directed at Steam, because it's not.

[–] Aussieiuszko@aussie.zone 59 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

Yeah, nah.

Petition these people:

https://www.collectiveshout.org/partners

Collective Shout is sustained by a small number of Australian partners. These are not big groups, and would quickly pull funding under any sort of pressure.

Collective Shout has a deep history with Christofascism and TERFs, so highlighting those angles is the way to go to get them pariahed. Once CS is out of the picture, we can work on undoing the damage they did.

[–] seralth@lemmy.world 11 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

It's the height of stupidity to try to pressure collective shout.

You don't tell the child to stop drawing on the wall for the 20th time and expect it to work.

You take it's crayons away so it can't anymore.

You fix the tool of abuse so it can't be abused.

[–] hikaru755@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

I think the idea is to pressure the partners of Collective Shout, per the url in the comment. Those might not necessarily agree with what they're doing in this case, and if they see it's making waves, reconsider their partnership.

[–] artyom@piefed.social 22 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Petitioning people to do something that is against their entire purpose doesn't seem like it would be effective.

[–] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 11 points 7 hours ago

Not only that, they'll get louder claiming they're being oppressed. Ignore them.

[–] DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 18 points 10 hours ago

Archived page: https://archive.ph/Ttyr5

Just in case.

[–] burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 19 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

i would expect the multi billionaire owners of the largest gaming platform on PC to have the ability to not fold like paper mache. I can also be mad at payment processors and valve at the same time

[–] seralth@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Valve is basically a small business one bad Monday from going bankrupt compares to payment processors.

Banks and payment processors are the single largest most powerful forces in a capitalist market.

You literally do NOT get bigger. Full stop.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 2 points 1 hour ago

No, Valve has something that MasterVisa doesn't: being liked by people. If Valve stopped taking payments and yelled to the rooftops that MasterVisa was responsible, people from all walks of life will stop, listen, and then get their pitchfork. Through the platform of Steam, people browse through the things that make their days happier. If MasterVisa threatened to take that away, people will respond.

Also, Europe and other blocs will be inclined to oppose MasterVisa. It would be a very public case of where America is dictating how the people of other lands must live. That would almost certainly make systems like Wero take off, due to sheer nationalist fervor. America is easily painted as the enemy if it allowed MasterVisa to continue abusing people on such a huge and international scale.

Money isn't the only currency a person has, their opinions and agency are even more important, if they acted on using them. History books are filled to the brim where motivation is the greatest driving force of all.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 4 points 4 hours ago

Valve is basically a small business one bad Monday from going bankrupt compares to payment processors.

Few quick searches around the internet says that (measured by revenue) Mastercard alone is roughly 3 times bigger than Valve. So even if Valve is pretty big player it's not even close on major payment processors. And they're not playing on the same rules either, any payment processor can vanish payments for anyone with just 'fuck you, that's why' -reasoning buried in their contracts. There's almost no one who could afford to fight with them even in theory and much less in practise.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 18 points 11 hours ago

Kinda hard to stay at the top if you literally get blacklisted from doing financial transactions. Big as they are, they're nowhere near the same level as the payment processors.

[–] Dindonmasker@sh.itjust.works -5 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

Under what arguments would we be able to push back on something like this? Most people would agree that these games where distasteful so arguing for them to be put back to not start a slippery slope isn't that easy it seems.

[–] mycodesucks@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago

See, THAT is not the slippery slope. STARTING to ban ANYTHING at all from legal transactions is the slippery slope. What happens when they decide R-rated films are distasteful? Or birth control?

Payment processors should have ABSOLUTELY no role in making ANY decisions about what legal transactions they process. Period.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 63 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (4 children)

Mainly that the companies controlling nearly all digital financial transactions across the entire globe should not be the arbiters of what is morally acceptable. If they must exist at all, they should just be handling the transfer of funds regardless of what is being bought and sold*.

*illegal shit would not be protected.

They are parasitic middle men that don't need to exist in the first place, though.

[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 15 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (2 children)

I would go further and say they shouldn't have the ability to block any transaction consumers are making, regardless of legality.

I basically want them classified like utilities (or the Internet), and the money they're processing should operate like digital networked cash. If I hand you a dollar bill, it doesn't arbitrarily decide to stop being money if it thinks the transaction might possibly be even tangentially related to crime. That's how you end up with these corporations becoming so invasive in the first place, with their overbroad policies blocking entire groups/categories from being in the economy.

Don't think that I'm pro-crime -- but only actual crime is crime. A transfer of funds itself is only sometimes a crime. You don't see the federal reserve trying to foil small-time drug deals in cash, and for good reason -- legitimate crimes should be investigated by law enforcement, not "prevented" at the whims of overeager corpos. It's not the payment processor's right or responsibility to prevent or they to predict crime, especially once they've built such a system as to become indispensable for most of us. If they are allowed to do that they will always do it the easy way -- blanket bans with massive collateral damage to non-criminals.

These companies should be disbanded and their systems should be handed over to the public. Hot take, I know, but I'm of the mind that transaction processing (much like air and water) should not be privatized. You may think at this point that I'm a crypto-head, but not really. It seemed promising at one point and may be still, but now it's perhaps permanently associated with unsavory types. I'll use it if it fits the purpose, but expecting the general public to use it as money is insanity. Crypto brought us part of the way there, but such a system can't really flourish in furtherance of the public good in the current environment -- even disregarding the bad PR.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 2 points 1 hour ago

Honestly, I am kinda expecting that with the way that America is becoming, something like Monero could become legitimized. There wasn't much reason for crypto to be a currency, so long as the world order remained orderly and useful to the everyday person.

Should the American Dollar collapse, there would be a howling void that must be filled - it could be Euros, the Yen, Monero, or something else entirely, but the opportunity would be there for currencies to change.

[–] MysteriousSophon21@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

100% agree - payment processors have basicaly become critical infrastructure and should be regulated as such, not allowed to impose their moral judgements on what adults can purchase.

[–] xep@fedia.io 15 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Absolutely. I'd switch to other payment methods that aren't those, if you can.

[–] real_squids@sopuli.xyz 9 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

*illegal shit would not be protected.

They can push for some law that makes certain groups or their depictions illegal. Then it's their morals becoming a law.
If there's ~~corruption~~ lobbying, there's a way for them to twist "immoral" into "illegal", which is fucked.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Yeah but that is a whole other can of worms. I am against legal bribery, as well as certain things being illegal. Like drugs. Or most porn. But I also think slavery, CP, bestiality, nuclear weapons, etc should be illegal to buy, sell, or even produce.

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

If they are dealing in US currency then the wording on the bill says it all. Legal tender for a debts public and private. When they print currency they don't say, "and this one can't be used for porn."

[–] kobra@lemmy.zip 3 points 10 hours ago

Don’t give em any ideas

[–] Aussieiuszko@aussie.zone 10 points 11 hours ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1r5VtCUwPw

Show people that game that was delisted because of them. The idea that they only took down pornographic games is wrong, they went after things that didn't fit their christofash narrative.

[–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 9 hours ago

"Hi there, would you like to sign the petition?"

[–] Pandantic@midwest.social 34 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Cyv_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 10 hours ago

Signed, thanks for the link <3