this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2026
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Most venoms are proteins or other large molecules. Antivenom is prepared by injecting small amounts of the venom into an animal, and when the animal's immune system produces antibodies that target the venom, we extract them and refine them. So antivenom is just antibodies that target venom.

Can we create a vaccine that makes antivenom antibodies inside a person's body, and have their immune system retain memory of the venom? It could be done by microdosing venom, or with compounds that are similar to the venom, but less harmful.

Edit for clarity: Microdosing is not my main point. I'm talking about whether antivenom can operate like a vaccine.
Current route of antivenom: Venom is injected into another animal in small, controlled amounts -> Animal's immune system produces antibodies -> Antibodies are extracted and refined -> Antibodies are used as treatment for a person who was envenomated
Hypothetical vaccine route of antivenom: Compound similar to venom is injected into people like a vaccine -> Person's immune system produces antibodies that target this compound, and will also target venom -> Person retains lasting immunity against venom, similar to immunity against diseases

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

Depends on the venom.

Some shit just kills tissue, you can't build tolerance to that.

Others make your heart pop like you just used on cocaine, and those you may be able to build tolerance to.

Even if you just narrow down to snakes, there's still a lot of different kinds of venom

[–] DougPiranha42@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

One thing I don’t see in other comments: if you’re vaccinated, the immune response will be still slow.

Immunity typically means a “memory trace” of a past immune response in form of a low number of cells that conserve the specific combinations of genetic material to produce an effective antibody. While persons with immunity may have detectable circulating antibody levels, those levels may be too low for an effective response. First, those memory cells need to divide and recruit more immune cells. That’s typically fast enough for fending off a new infection, because the infectious agent also works on the time scale of biological replication or reproduction.

As venoms can kill cells relatively fast, the ramping up of a response from immunity can be too slow, compared to the administration of a big dose of antibodies that can rapidly neutralize the toxin.

[–] Davel23@fedia.io 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A person exposing himself to small amounts of venom over a long period to grant immunity is a trope in many movies and TV shows, but I don't know how well it would work in real life.

[–] GhastfromthePast@sopuli.xyz 20 points 2 days ago

Tim Friede intentionally exposed himself to snake venom. Antibodies in his blood could counter 13 different elapid venoms. So it's happened at least once.

[–] Tiritibambix@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago
[–] irotsoma@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 days ago

Generally the immune system doesn't work that way. The immune system generally targets living organisms actively attacking the body. Immunity derives from learning how to efficiently kill the organisms, often after a single encounter, and "remembering" that for as long as possible.

The defense against toxins is a little different. I don't have as much knowledge on that side, but generally the defense against these kinds of things is achieved when a cell is damaged, but not killed by the agent heals in such a way that it's less susceptible to that agent. Kind of like a callus forming on a part of the skin that gets repeatedly damaged. Also, the systems of the body that are responsible for clearing out toxins become somewhat more effective at getting rid of them after repeated exposure.

So, vaccination generally relies on training the more active defense by specialized cells that are specifically "designed" to be trained and "remember" how to attack the organism, but not as much a reaction by the cells that are being attacked by the microorganism. Whereas toxin defense is more a reaction by the affected cells themselves as well as increased efficiency of the body to filter it out, but the affected cells don't really "learn" how to protect themselves in quite the same way.

But this is all generalization. There are many types of venoms and some can be affected by the immune system, but in general it's a very different type of response that requires repeated exposure and recovery to develop.