This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.
Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.
All posts should follow this basic structure:
Expect to receive feedback about your posts, they might even be negative.
Make sure you follow this instance's code of conduct. In other words we won't allow bellyaching about being sanctioned for hate speech or bigotry.
YTPB matrix channel: For real-time discussions about bastards or to appeal mod actions in YPTB itself.
Some acronyms you might see.
Relevant comms
Argument about why an instance doesn't want to federate with another instance that's devoted to political trolling. Apparently that kind of behavior is simply a core tenet of the belief system, and to criticize it is to reject the whole ideology.
Sealioning is such a bankrupt, speculative redditism to begin with. If someone's questioning isn't worth your time, then don't answer them: problem solved. We certainly don't need big daddy moderator trying to divine into the hearts & minds of questioners to decide whether they feign ignorance or are actually stupid.
Posing inane questions is as valid as anything in an online discussion. Socratic dialectic doesn't need sincere questions: it questions assumptions until we realize our ignorance. Asking uncomfortable questions is the point. I imagine Socrates & other philosophers who challenged conventionality by relentlessly questioning "obvious things" (especially when someone's not giving a real answer) would likely get banned for "sealioning".
With this case, I see Cowbee mischaracterizing the lemmy.world announcement to defederate from hexbear. lemmy.world admins saw irregularities in an instance announcement that raised doubts in the disposition of hexbear admins to seriously regulate brigading (another bankrupt redditism). In announcements usually reserved for boring admin business (policies, upgrades, federation), while hexbear admins wrote
Please read and respect the rules of the community instance in which you are posting/commenting.
they also included unnecessary statements promoting a common
that could motivate users toward a concerted action (ie, brigading). Foreboding comments indicated risk of an ideological crusade from their users
that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.
Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.
Why did hexbear team need to write those statements there & what are they doing there? The lemmy.world team thought it was pretty clear:
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to “dismantle western propaganda” and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
We've all seen how overbearing tankies get. Regardless of my thoughts on brigading, the lemmy.world admins clearly stated their position that hexbear poses a credible risk as a brigading hive with a questionable admin team they'd rather not deal with.
Cowbee mischaracterized it as a mere disagreement between ideologies when answering "why dot world blocked the commie instances"
Essentially, for having stances common to communists (opposing western hegemony is a big one they took issue with). Lemmy.world is run by your standard DNC-style liberals, they generally oppose Marxism and communism, and uphold the DNC as good. Some are also zionists.
This disregards the lemmy.world opposition to brigades going on crusades to "push their beliefs and ideology": that's an anti-brigading position and not a position defending a particular ideology, which (as "A generic Lemmy server for everyone to use") they don't claim (unlike hexbear).
I see null try to challenge Cowbee on this by quoting those ideological, agenda-setting statements (that had no good reason to be) in the hexbear announcement & user comments that promised a troublesome campaign to proselytize the fediverse, and I see Cowbee persistently evade by disregarding the elements indicating problematic conduct & not explaining why that nonsense was necessary. Cowbee would write loose interpretations that don't quote anything directly until one of their comments referred to a bolded line by confusingly combining words from 3 different lines (2 bolded lines & 1 unbolded line) from the lemmy.world announcement:
Why did they bold the line about the left wanting to dismantle the IMF, NATO, etc?
On careful interpretation, one could figure out which line they were referring to, but null didn't, and I admittedly thought Cowbee was referring to an unbolded line containing the words "IMF", "NATO", too at first: it was pointless confusion that should have just been a direct quote. Whether that line was bolded or not was tangential to the discussion. That didn't stop pointless fixation on the confusion (Cowbee had created in my opinion) from derailing the discussion until null conceded (cheap victory for Cowbee), and it didn't stop Cowbee from claiming null lied to their face, so they could continue evading the actual dispute.
That wasn't sealioning. That was just persistence with someone who would persistently try to evade.
It was you who was behaving like an entitled asshole. YDI. People can hate on Cowbee's politics all they like (and they relentlessly do, poor guy), but he's probably one of our calmest and most patient lemmy users. Especially considering all the abuse he gets simply for commenting.
I don't agree with Cowbee's politics, different ends to the means and I don't think the USSR's pros can outweigh the 95% of the cons.
But he's at least patient and respectful until he has a reason to be a bit more direct. I've never seen him throw insults at people who insult him constantly.
Out of all the major players on .ml, they're the one I tolerate the most.
~~Can't wait until MoG uses this as proof we're tankies for wanting a civil conversation between people.~~
I enjoy reading their comments too. I don't often agree and they're not always perfect in an argument, but they are often informative.
goodness gracious I read the entire argument. YDI. I'm actually kind of surprised at how long they allowed that to go on and give you the benefit of the doubt before finally putting a stop to it.
and you aren't even banned for that long. just 5 days.
5 days is like a lifetime to those glued to social media.
To some, being banned for 2 weeks means you might as well have told them to cut off their hands and sow their mouth shut.
Hello, this is Carcosa and my hexbear account made both the post and comment that was referenced by the .world admins.
The comment referenced by .world admins was a throw away comment and not a "instance representing statement" I have come to realize that is impossible on an admin account and should not have made the comment.
The post itself was an instance statement, but as cowbee has pointed out in the original post the sentence that the .world admins bolded was not. In addition the .world admin post left out context such as the fact that a portion of the statement was a collaboration of the "news mega crew" which is a large group of moderators and users who primarily interact through the instance through the site pinned news mega post.
As also mentioned hexbear existed for years before federation and was a frequent target for raids organized by other places. Combined with no downvotes this created a unique site posting culture that I knew would clash with the wider fediverse. I was hoping to try and bridge the gap in any way i could.
Including working with other instance admins however the initial poisoning of the well done by the .world admins in matrix has made that difficult.
There was heated discussion in the admin matrix between myself and antik over the fact he was convinced that hexbear brigades but as I said then and will now.
Show me where there is a credible call to action from an admin/mod targeting a specific instance, community, user, post or comment.
There isn't and the descendant of the instance that abused the rammy instance is still federated (hilarious-chaos) Those admins made credible calls to action asking their users to brigade a linked post. Hexbear has never done that.
One of hilarious chaos' admins alice intentionally leaked out of context screenshots from those admin matrix channels to maliciously attack other instance admins is no problem for .world admins who remain federated with hilarious-chaos.
Based on these facts (.world remains federated with hilarious chaos despite their admins engaging in two forms of toxic behaviors while pre-emtively defederating from hexbear) one can conclude that political differences is the motivation. I would respect that being the stated reasoning more than the bad-faith accusations made.
Regardless Hexbear users will never vote to federate with .world so the ultimately any discussion of federation between .world and hexbear is pointless.
You can't wash you hands of your instance members actions by claiming you didn't instigate it, especially when there are multiple cases (later deleted of course when people started linking them) of Hexbear admins saying that this behaviour is totally ok with them.
Hexbear users, mods, admins and myself did not make posts in other communities that were attempts to bait, troll, or "brigade". We may have commented in posts questioning liberalism, and I acknowledge that there was a bug with cross-instance emojis but the behavior of me, the other admins, and hexbear users are in accordance with every other federated instance.
You and many other admins have a problem with hexbear's ideology, which I understand it is difficult to be questioned from the left when acting as the adults in the room but if that is the reason then say so.
Which is besides the point as we are discussing the federation of hexbear and lemmy.world. As .world admins preemptively defederated with hexbear because hexbear is a leftist instance.
What was your (slrpnk admin's) reasoning for also preemptively defederating from hexbear?
You are either gaslighting yourself or are trying to do so with possible readers here if you deny the problematic cross-instance behavior of many (not all of course) Hexbear users or the tacit approval of that by the admins (clearly shown by the inaction of them). This, and only this is the reason we defederated, and to my knowledge was also the main reason why lemmy.world defederated.
Looks like a few posts with some decent points and like thirty messages of arguing about the argument where it gets so meta I can't even tell who's arguing what.
I donno if it deserved a ban but I could see a mod wanting to shut it down.
And jesus christ, you're still fighting about the bolding here? Everyone involved sucks.
Based upon your wording, ESH.
This post is really sparse, you should see the "Posting Guidelines" in the sidebar for what you ought to include.
YDI. You were sealioning and deliberately playing in bad-faith, such as (but not limited to) when you claimed nothing in the screenshotted text was bolded when it was. Your ban had nothing to do with the argument, but with the sealioning.
5 day ban, YDM