this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2025
125 points (98.4% liked)

No Stupid Questions

44475 readers
574 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

This is territory I thought I would never have to think about but something stinks lately to say the least.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] JakenVeina@midwest.social 1 points 20 hours ago

I don't think so. As far as I'm aware, it's never come up before. The way it would play out, I think, would be something like...

  • Future president issues an EO or whatever rescinding the pardon. This doesn't really accomplish anything, though. It's really just a signal to the DoJ that the president proooobably wants them to pursue charges against the individual in question. Which they've probably already discussed directly.
  • DoJ brings charges against the individual.
  • The individual, files a motion for dismissal of charges, on the grounds of the prior pardon.
  • The judge hears arguments from the DoJ about why that pardon should be considered invalid, and rules one way or the other. If I had to guess, I'd say most judges would rule that the existing pardon can't be overturned, as it's a power defined explicitly in the Constitution, and overturning pardon's isn't.
  • Regardless of the ruling, the decision gets appealed and escalated through the appeals court system to work out the final outcome.
[–] Pegajace@lemmy.world 119 points 5 days ago (10 children)

No. The power of the pardon is explicitly granted to the President in the text of the Constitution, and it provides no mechanism for reversing such pardons. It’s meant to be a check against unjust laws and/or corrupt courts, and presidents who would corruptly abuse the power for their own profit are supposed to be removed from office via impeachment—but as we’ve seen, Congress won’t even remove a president who orchestrates a mob attack against themselves as part of a scheme to overthrow an election.

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure that to re-incarcerate someone after they were pardoned would require a new trial, which would violate the double jeopardy clause.

[–] Fermion@mander.xyz 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Unless that person has comitted more crimes they were not previously prosecuted for. Which is not entirely unlikely if they are emboldened by having avoided punishment thanks to the backing of a corrupt POTUS. I.E. multiple Jan 6'ers. I would expect high rates of recidivism for beneficiaries of Trumo pardons.

Albeit prosecuting new crimes is not undoing a pardon, but it may achieve a measure of justice anyway.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Recidivism doesn't have anything to do with being re-incarcerated for the thing they were originally incarcerated for.

[–] Fermion@mander.xyz 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Right, they would be subject to new prosecution for new crimes because of their recidivism. The pardoned crimes are no longer relevant to whether they end up incarcerated again. My point is that we have already seen high rates of recidivism in those pardoned by Trump, and a reformed Attorney General's office or states can prosecute crimes that haven't been pardoned. This doesn't provide justice for the corruption of bad pardons, but if the end result is incarceration just the same, then that might be close enough to justice.

I think we are in agreement, I guess I didn't phrase my initial comment particularly well.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

I took OP's wording to mean re-incarcerating them for the same crime, although it's not explicit in that either now that I'm looking at it again. Anyway yeah let them rot, idgaf what for. They got Capone on tax evasion. 🤷‍♂️

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 1 points 3 days ago

No, once pardoned, they're pardoned. The thing about the people that he's pardoned is that they are sociopaths, and they will offend again. There's nothing stopping authorities from monitoring those people closely, and giving them the maximum sentence on something else.

OJ beat the rap on murder, but he still spent the better part of a decade in jail for something else, because he had no benefit of the doubt from society, so that's something.

Just OJ these criminals.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Using traditional logic and precedent: no.

In the context of the brave new world we find ourselves in, in which the Tribunal of Six have given the president effective carte blanche to do pretty much anything so long as it’s “an official act” (where an “official act” is defined, as far as I can tell, by the president saying “this is an official act”): lots of things, including

  • siccing one of the various spec ops teams from the Do~~D~~W or DoJ on them
  • declaring open season on said person, including a bounty and guaranteed presidential pardon
  • inviting them to a meeting and then shooting them in the face
  • etc

Seriously, it’s anyone’s guess at this point. The bones of the system are crumbling, and many have already been shattered, likely irreversibly. The only thing holding this shitshow up at this point are load-bearing posters.

[–] Foni@lemmy.zip 16 points 5 days ago (2 children)

After that Supreme Court decision, I believe the United States will not be able to recover a full democracy without a massive constitutional overhaul or a completely new constitution.

I genuinely do not believe the situation to be recoverable - rewriting the constitution in this day and age, with the insanely partisan politics and fascistic idiocy on full display, juxtaposed with a corporatist, neoliberal “opposition party” that conducts zero meaningful opposition is frankly a non-starter.

And even if it was possible: I don’t want a constitution sponsored by Comcast and Exxon Mobil and Amazon and Meta and X and Palantir and so on. Which, I’m sure, is probably in the plan somewhere.

[–] hamid@crazypeople.online 2 points 5 days ago

They should have a new constitution. The US constitution is broken at an architectural level and can not be fixed. France has new constitutions every generation, there is no reason the US should be stuck with a court and country style document from 250 years ago that call black people 3/5ths of a person on it.

Every American should read this book The frozen republic : how the Constitution is paralyzing democracy

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Nope. Trump is out to do as much irreparable damage as he can to own the Libz and there’s shit tons of nothing that a lot of people are willing to do about.

[–] snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

So Trumps threat to undo all the pardons Joe Biden did for his family cannot really be undone?

[–] One_Honest_Dude@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Correct. That's why he tried to talk so much about the auto pen. The claim being that Biden did not even know what was being signed, so that they were 'never actually pardoned.' Which is bull shit, just for the record.

[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

I don’t think so, no. He’s a fat fucking troll. He’s full of all the shit one can stuff into a giant diaper. He wants us having this discussion and not the one that’s about him fucking kids.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago

Nope. Otherwise Nixon would have been unpardoned by Carter.

[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Theoretically a constitutional amendment could be passed. That would require 3/4 of states to ratify it.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

in the case of constitutional amendments, this gets even more complex. Technically states have the ability to force a constitutional convention hearing in the case of a legislative branch either not bringing to the floor or denying an amendment that has clear popularity in the states.

The issue with this is that it requires a 2/3 vote of the states in agreement, and that it also requires a system that only has the bare minimums defined legally on it. It doesn't define what a convention is, or even how many people in the state have to agree. It's fully left on the states to decide it on an individual basis how that system would work for them.

How it would work is

  1. current legislative refuses to hear a popular amendment
  2. at least 2/3 of the states organize some sort of system that can act as a commitee somehow representing the overall choice of the states citizens
  3. upon 2/3 of the states agreeing, a convention is forced potentially excluding the legislative branch as a whole
  4. the bill that gets created at said convention is then put up to the 3/4 state vote required to ratify it.
[–] can_you_change_your_username@fedia.io 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That process is more dangerous because it's less constrictive. Going through the legislative branch limits it to one amendment and is a drawn out public process. At a constitutional convention the representatives can debate and pass anything they want to with the required 3/4 vote without public notice or input. I don't trust our current political system not to add corporate written amendments to the constitution if they have the chance to do so without public review.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 days ago

Fully agreed its dangerous

[–] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 4 days ago

The whole point of a pardon is "we know you did the crime, but don't think you should be punished." It can only come about if there's an ulterior motive, like corruption or if you agree to work with the government towards their goals, initially working on dangerous projects etc. Allowing it to be overturned later would undermine that as it wouldn't make the danger worth it.

[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't know, but I would be fine if the presidential pardon was abolished. Perhaps replace it with only a stay of execution.

[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Nah, it can be used for good. Obama pardoned a lot of non-violent drug offenders who were gonna be in jail into there 60s due to something they did in there 20s because of mandatory minimums.

[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

I don't have the numbers but I'm guessing it's been used for harm more than good.

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 days ago

Yes, US Supreme court says the president can order Seal teams to do stuff (if you know what I mean 😏)

Just hope the next president has a spine

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 3 points 5 days ago (5 children)

The president has no business undermining the judiciary in the first place.

[–] bizarroland@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Although I do find it strange that there is no check on the judiciary.

Like, it's supposed to be checks and balances, but what stops the judges from passing an unjust law?

Judges have a lifetime appointment in the Supreme Court. The only way they can be removed is by all of Congress coming together and choosing to impeach one of them, and that takes years when Congress is actually functioning.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 14 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Judges don't pass law at all. At must jurisprudence in the absence of law. Laws are the realm of the legislative.

The legislative could pass a law limiting supreme court term to 16 years tomorrow of they wanted.

[–] radix@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Judges don't pass laws, but they can create plenty of loopholes out of thin air. Qualified Immunity doesn't exist in any statute (to my knowledge), but it is a de facto legal standard, for one example.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Because there isn't a law about it. What we need is a legislative that actually does their fucking job.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

There is a law about it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20230520080201/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/us/politics/qualified-immunity-supreme-court.html

And if the 1982 SCOTUS had been given the full text of the relevant law, then QI would have never happened. It is expressly illegal according to the full text of Section 1983

Well… yes and no. Judges can and do blatantly ignore law and impartiality. To wit: Judge Cannon, who successfully completely stymied any meaningful prosecution of orangeboi, in a series of legal decisions that were overtly partisan and biased.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

http://web.archive.org/web/20230520080201/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/us/politics/qualified-immunity-supreme-court.html

And if the 1982 SCOTUS had been given the full text of the relevant law, then QI would have never happened. It is expressly illegal according to the full text of Section 1983

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

http://web.archive.org/web/20230520080201/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/us/politics/qualified-immunity-supreme-court.html

~~And if the 1982 SCOTUS had been given the full text of the relevant law, then QI would have never happened. It is expressly illegal according to the full text of Section 1983~~

Whoops replied to the wrong comment.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] foodandart@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 days ago

..but what stops the judges from passing an unjust law?..

Well, ostensibly it's congress that passes the laws and the courts may say how they are interpreted or implemented.

If the courts are interpreting the laws against what the authors of the law intended, it is up to congress to write laws that are better and pass constitutional muster without question..

We're at the point we are because of poorly written laws that have led to loopholes and poor implementation being taken advantage of.

[–] SippyCup@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 days ago

They have no authority to enforce any law. And they have no legislative powers.

Rulings have been ignored multiple times because the judiciary just has no means to enforce what the executive branch refuses to enforce

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

technically the check for judicial was supposed to be a mix between it being a life position and the legislative branches impeachment/revocal process. The court was supposed to be an impartial non-political, but it's been slowly slipping into a very heavily political system.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Wilco@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 days ago

No. A pardon is a perfect legal exemption for a crime.

[–] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 2 points 5 days ago

If there's still enough left of America to function after trump is done, I imagine the new government will come up with all kinds of new ways to undo a previous corrupt and disastrous presidency.

load more comments
view more: next ›