This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Windhawk and ExplorerPatcher will allow this while windows still resize correctly, so it's a mystery to me as to why MSFT won't do it.
For anyone interested, Google the app called WindHawk. It makes it extremely possible to push the taskbar up.
Because fuck you, that's why.
Saved you a click.
Seriously, only go there for the facepalms.
This almost makes me want to move my panel in Plasma just because I can.
In Windows 10, you could move it to the top, left, or right of the screen.
In every version of Windows up until now which has contained a taskbar and start menu, as far back as Windows 95. Not just Windows 10. Let's not sell short the full extent idiocy on display, here.
"Pouring its engineering resources," my ass.
In every version of Windows up until now which has contained a taskbar and start menu, as far back as Windows 95. Not just Windows 10.
Sadly not true. Microsoft removed the Start button in a version of Windows before. It was in Windows 8 (and Windows Server 2012 for some godforsaken reason) with the cursed "metro" interface. MS did it for the same stupid reason they're citing here "tablet and touchscreen users". The uproar caused MS to release Windows 8.1 a year later where they returned the Start button.
Windows 8 and metro were not so bad compared to what's happening now. They at least had a consistent picture in mind. I liked those things even if I wouldn't use them (moved firmly to Linux by then).
My own humble opinion is that Windows in all its parts (perhaps except NT and basic layers) is as a project too much legacy. Simply existed too long with backwards support for various versions of involved libraries, with MS carrying the burden of maintaining old versions (while applications developers could package them similarly to how they package patched versions). Many tools to do the same thing.
They should put all that on life support, installable separately, and make a clean set of libraries and tools that forms their new normal desktop installation. Preferably tabula rasa, no compromises.
A file manager, a configuration manager, a set of desktop widgets. It'll take them much less effort and time to just write a new set of tools.
A normal configuration manager supporting all that it should is the hardest thing. But it'll also be the killer feature, imagine one UI to configure everything in a Windows installation, it'd be as cool as YaST2 in OpenSUSE or drakconf. IIRC, their system configuration tools for Windows 98 were a bit more user-friendly than NT-inherited for 2000 and XP, and haven't (the old ones) improved much since then ; they can fix that.
That means dropping backwards compatibility for such a clean installation - well, who wants to run old applications, will run them in, sigh, that installable compatibility environment (might be cut down somehow).
I'm almost certain that'll be both cheaper and more popular among users than what they are doing.
In the launch version of windows 11 and for over TWO YEARS it didn't even support drag&drop. It was working fine even on windows me
Drag and drop worked on windows 3.1. That was like the whole thing. "LOOK WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW!"
At this point, I'm fairly sure pissing people off is the point with Windows 11. It's full of AI no one wants, refuses to officially run on most hardware that people already have, despite running just fine on that same hardware UNofficially, dropped support for drag and drop, doesn't let you move the taskbar.
And thats not even to mention the fact that it monitors you, and reports back to HQ with screen grabs and usage activity.
Oh look, ZorinOS, just one singular distro, had 1.6 million downloads in the past 2 months.
Wait, is there any special thing that happened 2 months ago? Oh right. Windows 10 support ended, and microsoft told its userbase "fuck you, you can't get support for windows 10, and this computer can't update to windows 11. This computer is now trash!"
Suddenly all these youtube videos pop up "Is your PC unable to install windows 11? Try linux!"
And these videos don't try to sway you to one distro or another. They point out a few big hitters like mint or ubuntu. I can't imagine them specifically naming zorin, unless it's a zorin centric video. But I'm talking about the flood of "try linux" videos that popped up in October.
And that 1.6 million is JUST zorin. That's the runoff. I don't have numbers, or sources, but gut instinct tells me that if Zorin had 1.6 million downloads, Mint must have had like 5 million minimum. Every video always reccomends Mint. It's probably overtaken Ubuntu at some point as most used distro.
And all of this, every single bit of user loss has NOTHING to do with linux. Users are angrily switching. Not happily. They feel abandoned, and forced to switch.
If Microsoft either extended Windows 10 support, or allowed Windows 11 to be installed on reasonable hardware, this linux boom DOES NOT HAPPEN. This is Microsoft saying "Yeah bitch, money is tight! Go buy another computer, loser! You'll do what we say, and there's nothing you can do to stop us!"
That's when users switched to linux. This is pure hubris from Microsoft. It would be interesting if somehow we could get a combined number of EVERY distros doenload numbers.
It also has a very poorly written UI interface that's fucking infuriating. I was reverse engineering it to figure out why it's so damn slow on HDDs, with explorer.exe rendering like shit, the Start menu crawling, and taskbar popups that make you want to smash your screen. They wrote really really fucking bad code compared to the Win7 days—basically just took the old MFC crap and slapped a XAML wrapper on it to make it look "nice." What a fucking disaster.
Microsoft’s data shows such users are really small when compared to the number of users who are asking for other newer features in the taskbar.
Asking for things like AI integration everywhere?
Wouldn't it be cool if you could have AI on the desktop clock so you could ask it what time it was in different places in the world?
I was going to make a joke that they could also replace the taskbar search bar with an AI chat bar, but after reading the article, it turns out that they're planning on doing that for real:
Windows 11 taskbar is now being “upgraded” with AI-first features. Microsoft is working on the Ask Copilot bar, which may replace Windows Search in the taskbar.
Didn't they try something similar with Cortana, and were thoroughly rejected?
This is madness. Madness? This is Wiiiiindoooows.
Why the hell ...
They could just make another application. With compact mode to have as a prompt in the corner of the screen, similar to DigiCam or Winamp or other such.
They could even eventually deprecate tools allowing to do the same things it provides.
I can even say that conversational user interfaces are not all idiocy - at some point I dreamed of them replacing all the bright buttons and icons we have.
People making this are not idiots.
But putting a conversational user interface everywhere people expect to have one prompt and a response, preferably with clear logic of that response, - it's just socially hostile behavior.
There really is progress behind this! Or, more precisely, there is sanity, it's not all hype. Making a useful GUI requires learning something about ergonomics and human psychology and tests, most UI designers don't have a clue. And a conversational interface, like in old text quests or MUDs and with these AI chatbots, solves the problem. It doesn't require memorizing a thousand commands and interpreter syntax like a command shell.
Unless you make a UI with downsides of both and upsides of neither. Takes Microsoft to do this.
Tali Roth, the then product manager working on the core Windows user experience, including the Start menu, taskbar, and notifications, took up the question and talked about how building the taskbar from scratch meant that they had to cherry-pick things to put into the feature list first, and the ability to move the taskbar didn’t make the cut, for several reasons that Microsoft values.
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!
If you have working code, why would you rewrite it from scratch? Refactor, sure. Overhaul, maybe. But why rewrite the whole thing?! You're gaining nothing but unnecessary bugs.
I know all the joke answers. To justify a product manager's salary, because Microsoft gonna Microsoft, whatever. I want to know the real reason. Why would you ever rewrite working code from scratch if you don't have to?
If it takes so much effort to move the taskbar, why did it need to be fully rewritten in react native when everything worked before?
Is this what hearing Vogon Poetry is like?
Why can't they just ask copilot to program that for them?
The taskbar items can't have a constant width. Your whole taskbar layout changes when you change a tab in Firefox. You have to open a set of programs from right to left, because any other order will change the positions of the items you want to click.
When not combining windows, in Windows 10 you could order them to your preference and usefulness. Now, you're stuck. Even when not combined, the items are combined in one block, and you can't order them within the block either.
Microsoft applied a data-driven approach to find out which features to add now, which features to add later, and which to completely avoid.
WHAT DATA?!
It really seems like Windows really needs KDE to come back to the platform...
The bit about apps having to reflow seems nonsensical. They have to reflow any time the user resizes their windows.
I'm not accepting any excuses from MS about limited resources when Linux desktop environments built by hobbyists have the feature in question.
Let’s be real, it’s because it makes it easier to train AIs on the Recall screenshots if it always has the taskbar in the same position as a reference context
Four years ago, Recall wasn't a thing. Microsoft was caught as off-guard by the AI hype machine as the rest of us. So I doubt this was originally the reason.
Might be now, though.
When you think about having the taskbar on the right or the left, all of a sudden the reflow and the work that all of the apps have to do to be able to have a wonderful experience in those environments is just huge
It was working fine in windows 95. Suddenly all programmers became incompetent and can't handle something like that?
I'd guess it's for the same reasons why we can't have a local account
it’s safe to assume that the company isn’t interested in pouring its engineering resources into pursuing something that won’t benefit a majority of users
I mean, they could just let their awesome Copilot vibe code it, couldn't they? Another reasons why I love being on Linux; you can do whatever even it it doesn't make sense to the majority of users.
you can do whatever even it it doesn’t make sense to the majority of users.
If they could do math, they'd know that you should fit every decision for all users you can think about, not the majority. Because the majority is different for every dimension, and if you choose a different strategy, your end result won't be usable for anyone.
"We specifically made the product worse, because that saves us money we don't need and gives us additional control over users' computers, since so many are locked into our ecosystem."
Seriously, read the article. That's basically it!
My wife was given a new work computer. Windows 11 and not enough RAM. She has been finding a new reason to hate it nearly every day, starting with how every change made to windows has fucked up her workflow in some way.
Me just nodding in acknowledgement as my little Dell Inspiron 15 purs along on Mint with Cinnamon.
I was briefly a star at work when all of the terminals updated to Win 11. I was the only dude that knew how to move the start button back to the lower left corner.
No exaggeration, this was my breaking point for switching to linux exclusively.
