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submitted 2 weeks ago by jackeroni@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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[–] DeltaWingDragon@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Are you saying that China will collapse/decommunize?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

No, the point is that we shouldn't cry because the USSR fell, but instead be happy that the PRC carries the torch.

[–] jbloggs777@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It has better wealth disparity than the US, but that is a very low bar. It's main success seems to be that the bottom 50% get to share 8% of the wealth (US ~3%, UK ~5%).

GINI index suggests it's hot on the tail of the US.

EU average GINI seems much lower.

Honestly - it looks like the kind of place whwre non-flaunted capitalism with human exploitation win out, while flaunting it may get one investigated. If you have party support, then you get a paved road.. if not, you have to pave it yourself.

Opinion: It's a bit different, but nothing to rave about as far as protecting workers goes.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Socialism is not "low GINI index." Socialism is a mode of production characterized by public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy, and the working class in charge of the state. Both are true in China, neither are true in Europe. The European countries you point out achieve lower disparity not through worker control, but through bribing the working class with the spoils of international plunder through imperialism, something China doesn't do.

[+] jbloggs777@discuss.tchncs.de -8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Sigh. I am clearly talking about real world impact, not debating political theory or implementation.

China has done well at lifting itself up over the years without external wars and minimal internal conflict after the cultural revolution, but let's not romanticize it too much.. Under Xi, it is no longer heading in the right direction. We can say: it's doing better than many countries, including the US (that bar is pretty low). I still hold hope, but not with Xi at the helm.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Can you elaborate? Xi has done more to increase socialization and reduce corruption as compared to the 2000s. I really don't know what you're talking about.

[–] jbloggs777@discuss.tchncs.de -5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Corruption efforts are nice, but are also about control and loyalty - keep your head down and stay loyal, and you may prosper. Extreme poverty is way down (yay!), but so is social mobility and opportunities for younger generations. The huge number of chinese millionaires are very telling here - second only to the US. Something is going very wrong.

Then there's its military assertiveness, which could lead to a new regional or world war..

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Billionaires in China are going down over time, and real wages for the working classes have steadily and consistently improved year over year for decades. China does have problems, but it has been improving under Xi. Further, China doesn't have millitary assertiveness, that would be the US Empire.

[+] jbloggs777@discuss.tchncs.de -6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Billionaires were nearly non-existent when he started, and only went up for a long time under him (*exchange rates play a role here, if we talk USD) until economic hard times, where the numbers sunk.. I'm not giving Xi that.

Its naval neighbours will disagree with you on assertiveness, but I can't dispute the US, although I wouldn't call it an empire, rather a superpower with long and tawdry history of abusing its position. And now, trump is leading it into a death spiral, making it far less predictable and more dangerous.

In times of chaos, it's not the altruists who are out in front, but those who act fast and decisively. It's likely going to be a shitshow.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 weeks ago

China's wealth has dramatically skyrocketed over time, resulting both in more billionaires and in dramatically improved material conditions for the working classes. China is not in "hard times" either. I suggest reading China Has Billionaires.

The US is the world empire. The vast sums of wealth it has it gains by superexploiting the global south for super profits and through unequal exchange. It uses the IMF, dollar hegemony, and financial institutions to plunder the world. This is by definition an extremely clear empire. Trump isn't taking it on a death spiral, imperialism is decaying and Trump happens to be president while that happens.

You've consistently erased the US Empire's imperialism and tried to pretend it's somehow beneficial to the world, which is the key problem with your analysis.