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EDIT: The Fluxer dev has agreed to remove the CLA!
Just a heads up to anyone interested in Fluxer: there's a huge red flag; it has a contributor CLA that could allow it to change to a non-FLOSS license in the future. I was hopeful for it previously, but that kills it for me.
Well spotted!
For one, I am ready to support developers. But this model of software development isn't going to work out. Doesn't matter to me if they figure out how to get paid, but this is 100% the foundation of an enshittification model. And being that it's software based around organizing communities... one thing people need to learn is that people move, communities do not. It's not worth the risk.
An unexpected but welcome update, the Fluxer dev agreed to remove the CLA, which puts it back in the running.
Self-hosted deployments won't include any traces of Plutonium,
I'm sure there's a context here, but it's funnier without it
lol, plutonium is their paid version of the software, so they’re just saying that nothing will print us to “upgrade”
So is the paid version just because I like them and want to give them some money or they're actual feature benefits of the paid version over the free version.
I don't mind paying in theory but they're trying to replace a free product so the "pro" version would have to have significant benefits.
You give them money for two things. Your paying the dev so he doesn't have to work two jobs and can focus on just this one job. Which is ideal for a major project that the lead dev is full time on the project.
And two if you use someone else's infrastructure. If you arnt using your own hardware then you should be fucking paying money and not being a free loader.
Self host if you don't want to pay. You get all of the features, there's no restrictions and you can do what ever you want with it.
Honestly I'm getting pissed at all the stupid projects that charge you money for self hosting. It's stupid as fuck. So it's nice to see a project that's basically pay us and use our servers or host it yourself and have no restrictions.
Fucking hell, can people please just band together and build one piece of software that works well and is federated? There are like 17 of these clones already, this is doing no one good.
As long as they're federated, does it matter if there's multiple different softwares? Wouldn't they be able to communicate with each other, so it's not like each would be in its own silo?
Or can matrix only talk with matrix, IRC with IRC, XMPP with XMPP, etc?
As long as it doesn't result in silos, I think having multiple choices is a good thing. It gives you options, and can grow in multiple directions to suit different needs. Plus there's redundancy so no single point of failure. Part of what's good about open source is that anyone can fork it, right?
perhaps, but you still get feature fragmentation… things like custom emojis, stickers, what video codecs to support (heck i reckon they’d probably focus on chat first and video would only be available within the same app until some organisation effort happened), etc
you can see that a little bit on lemmy with the difference in how blocks work on lemmy vs piefed… piefed blocks on lemmy look like a shadow ban because lemmy doesn’t support the error style piefed uses… i think that’d it anyway
point being: just because software can exchange data and have the same problem domain and even in many cases use the same basic terminology, there can still be plenty of more advanced features that aren’t interoperable
re matrix, it can talk to anything… kinda… the matrix protocol has the idea of “bridges” built into it, so they should be able to translate between your client talking to the server via matrix protocol, and other things like XMPP, IRC, etc (at least in theory)
No, because most of them suck
Ehh I have the most faith in matrix but it definitely isn’t perfect and barely a discord replacement .
Someone mentioned commet as a discord like matrix client the other day. I've trialled it using my matrix setup, and it looks and feels very clean, I definitely prefer it to element.
Unfortunately as the tale always goes, it's not quite on par with element in features (it claims to have RTC support using livekit, but I couldn't find the group call option), but it's definitely one of the more interesting clients to come about recently. I really like the separation of spaces and personal chats, and the multiple accounts feature is useful from a sysadmin perspective.
Once they manage voice channels with RTC, I think matrix will finally have its discord alternative that could see some adoption with everyday users.
Copying it here:
Caution
Holy smokes, what a ride. Fluxer is taking off much earlier than I'd expected.
Over the past month, I've been working on a major refactor that touches every part of the codebase. The goal is to make Fluxer easier to develop, fully documented, and much simpler and lighter to self-host. This update also includes plenty of bug fixes and improvements, and it should help the Fluxer.app hosted deployment handle the current load far better.
I know it's hard to resist, but please wait a little longer before you dive deep into the current codebase or try to set up self-hosting. I'm aware the current stack isn't very lightweight. In the next update, self-hosting should be straightforward, with a small set of services: Fluxer Server (TypeScript) using SQLite for persistence, Gateway (Erlang), and optionally LiveKit for voice and video.
Self-hosted deployments won't include any traces of Plutonium, and nothing is paywalled. You can still configure your own tiers and limits in the admin panel.
Thanks for bearing with me. Development on Fluxer is about to get much easier, and the project will be made sustainable through community contributions and bounties for development work. Stay tuned – there's not much left now.
I thought I could take it a bit easier while shipping this stabilising update, but Discord's recent announcement has changed things.
As soon as the refactor is live, I'll interact more actively and push updates to this repository more frequently. The remaining parts of the refactor are currently being worked on and are being tested by a small group of testers before I'm comfortable pushing everything publicly. After that, all work will happen openly in public.
❤️
Btw, activitypub integration?
It looks like they're deploying this right now:
Fluxer HQ will likely remain unavailable for the coming few hours as I get this update deployed. The rest of the platform remains available. Please bear with us as we work to get the refactor deployed which should fix this and other issues you've been having! <3
Why are they already selling a Discord Nitro equivalent for an unfinished Beta???
This feels like a bad sign to me
How... Do you think projects get seed money? Like do you think daddy bezo just appears from thin air to grant people endless wealth to work on major projects?
I'm actually cool with projects being sustainable from the start, rather than hyper scaling off private equity funding before gutting features and selling them back at a later date.
Revolt/Stoat not talking about paid options at all on their main page makes me more suspicious, if anything.
Because people don't like to donate.
Ideally there will many other self-hosted and federated instances to join without any payments.
Not saying anyone should jump on it right now, just to have a look and keep an eye on it. I definitely wouldn't invest anything into it until after it's self-hostable, at the very least.
The response to this mess is gonna be everyone sticking with Discord, not because there's no alternatives, but because there's too many alternatives.
I do have to wonder, given the age of the app and the seeming lack of contributors on GitHub, how vibe-coded is this app?
If you check the dev's blog you'll find they've been working on it for 5 years and published a squashed version of the history on GitHub when they cleaned up the code for public release
Welp, that blog wasn't linked anywhere on the main page.
Reading through it, it actually makes it all seem a lot more reasonable, that's good. It's just difficult not to be skeptical in .
Edit:
Fluxer was largely built before LLMs became a normal part of day-to-day development. I do use them now, but in a limited way: as a rubber duck and for mechanical implementation work when I already have a detailed spec. I treat the code it outputs like I would any external contribution.
No LLM designed the system, wrote the specs, or made architectural decisions. That was all me. I only use LLMs when I already know the platform well enough to review the result properly.
That seems fairly okay.
Further edit: wording.
Looks like they got caught out by this all too, they are asking for another month or so to get a refactor in.
It looks like they're deploying this right now:
Fluxer HQ will likely remain unavailable for the coming few hours as I get this update deployed. The rest of the platform remains available. Please bear with us as we work to get the refactor deployed which should fix this and other issues you've been having! <3
I'm currently still locked in due to some magnitude of network effect. Let's just say that I'm looking forward to more news about this program's development with great interest.
Hope it does well, but consider how hard it was to get people to move from WhatsApp to discord, getting them to use a niche federated option is going to be an uphill battle for any non-techie groups for a bit.
The most difficult part is not switching but getting my friends to also log up
It'll get a whole lot easier when they can't access your community any longer without gov ID. Just start posting some dicks or something.
How's the Linux support? I'm having an issue of finding a platform that works properly with Linux, especially screen sharing. For some reason, audio does not work in screen sharing on Linux with discord or Root.
I set up stoat and I’m loving it so far, I’ll be curious to follow the development of this as well but I think the few people I got to join stoat out of the two dozen on my discord server would tar and feather me if I started talking about yet another alternative after the teeth pulling that was getting them to join the first one lol
I mean, that's fair. Stoat just seems to have stagnated in development. Plus they openly admit they have no plans for federation. This one is newer and has quite a lot more features.
I think the discord exodus kicked their ass into gear dev wise, they seem to have finished up the rebranding (discord no longer shows revolt as the activity) and the desktop app got a few new features yesterday. But yeah, the lack federation thing is a definite downside, I think you can self host but it doesn’t seem to be super intuitive (granted I’m not the most technical). I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on this though. Thanks for sharing it!
EDIT 2: The Fluxer dev agreed to remove the CLA!
EDIT: Just a heads up to anyone interested in Fluxer: I was just informed today of a huge red flag for Fluxer; it has a contributor CLA that could allow it to change to a non-FLOSS license in the future. I was hopeful for it previously, but that kills it for me.
Of all the discord clones, this one does look promising I must admit, especially since the dev has mentioned they'd be open to incorporating federation and some encryption abilities down the road. The GPL license is a good mark, and the dev seems pretty chill. Downside is that's it's still very rough and in more of a visually polished alpha state. The dev mentioned they're about to release a major refactor of the codebase, which they hope will fix the sluggishness the server is experiencing after an influx of new users from the Discord dumpster fire.
Personally, I'd still suggest Movim over Fluxer at the moment.
Movim already has a proven, scalable back-end (XMPP), it's already federated, already provides good encryption, has 90% feature parity with Discord such as Chats, group video calls, screen-sharing with audio (requires chromium browser to share audio for now), its made in the EU, and it's ready right now, not some time in the future (if Discord users fleeing discord try Fluxer, they'd be likely to bail on it due to the current bugs and just go back to discord). The Movim developer is also currently working on adding in discord-like channels and rooms.
But that's just my 2 cents. Fluxer is one to keep an eye on for the future, though.
I think some programmers with striped thigh-high socks should take one for the team and work on Fluxer. Seriously!
So what do you think?
