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207

Viktor Orbán refuses to agree to €90bn loan for Ukraine as EU leaders accuse him of betrayal (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 month ago by Valnao@sh.itjust.works to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] tal@lemmy.today 39 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Frankly, I don't see why sending funds requires unanimous EU approval. Hungary wasn't even contributing, based on the article:

Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic approved the idea with the crucial caveat that they did not have to contribute to the loan.

So I'd expect that any group of countries that do want to send funds could do so absent Hungary without even affecting the total commitment.

Sanctions on goods out of Russia or something, sure. The EU controls what gets into the EU at the customs border. You have to have an EU-level decision, or goods can enter via another EU member and then there's no control of the flow of goods internal to the EU. The EU structure doesn't permit for that to be done below the EU level.

But I don't believe that there's any intrinsic reason that Hungary need sign off on funds going to Ukraine, assuming that other countries honestly do want to send that money. A country can send funds wherever it wants, on an individual or collective basis.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Of course any country can send whatever help they want.
The point of this agreement within EU, is that it is an EU decision that guarantees Ukraine enough money to sustain the war.
If each country does it individually, it can be blocked similarly within each country's parliament.
And no single country would realistically guarantee Ukraine this kind of money.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Afaik the EU wants to change the mechanism for initiatives like this, specifically so no one country could hold the entire thing hostage. But I wouldn't be surprised if it took twenty years to implement that.

Orbán was a thorn in the side of the EU since 2022, and he was already asked to go drink some coffee while adults formed another aid package for Ukraine back in 2024.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hungary is an eu member with the veto power that entails. It is a protection for other countries too in other instances on other issues. It's how the eu works. What's meant to happen is they negotiate with the state that has an issue to alleviate the concern.

That's what happened. Except Hungary, or rather Orban is changing the deal. If individual countries send funds it's messier and doesn't show the international support and intent that a clock like the eu sending support does. Its not just about money, but intelligence sharing, training, arms etc.

[–] Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Orban was never going to negotiate in good faith. He's in Putin's pocket.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Afaik he's trading support for Ukraine for some EU money or whatnot going to Hungary.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think he's lost some funding due to obstructions. So if his plan was as a negotiation tactic, not as a means to help Putin, it's failed miserably.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

He keeps doing this for the past four years, and afaik the EU keeps giving him concessions and the aid keeps being delivered in the end.

[–] Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Clearly, Orban didn't ever plan to follow through with those promises. He's playing a different game.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You know that he was doing this exact thing since 2022, right? Somehow aid to Ukraine keeps being delivered in the end.

[–] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 22 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Is it betrayal if he was never on their side though?

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

They had an agreement that Hungary wouldn't block it, for instance Hungary was not participating in paying.
So yes Hungary is betraying their word and the agreement they accepted.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Basically the tides are turning against Orban in Hungary so now he's becoming desperate.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

He was doing this same thing since 2022. He's expecting the EU to placate him with some benefits going to Hungary.

[–] tidderuuf@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Bets Vance told him not to go in on the deal?

[–] mEEGal@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago

He was into this kind of stuff way before Vance pulled his dick out from between those couch cheeks

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I'm pretty sure Hungary is still salty that Ukraine blew up their oil supply

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hungary, or rather Orban, is a Russian ally. Likely for corruption reasons.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Any sources on that

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

About the corruption, which is ciecumstancial.or being a Russian ally?

Let me know what evidence either way you have found on your own and I'll add to it, rather than sealion fishing.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

How about both given this is the first time I have ever heard of either such claim? The world doesn't revolve around one continent, that's a very arrogant stance to take.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 1 points 1 month ago

I'm no longer on that continent. Strange you're commenting on hangaries relations with Ukraine and the war without that level of familiarity with what's has been more widely part of commentary.

Here is a sample article going back to early in the war. You'll need to circumvent the paywall. https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/07/11/orban-putin-hungary-russia-war-politics-eu/

[–] Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

GTFO

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

He should be out of office soon. Last I heard.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Worst case scenario he tries to steal the election, fails, tries to Maduro his way out of it and then asks tramp and putain for military help against the big bad EU.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You think el douchbagger in chief over here could make the difference somehow if orban steals it? The EU did pretty much surrender on about everything so far in truth. And is more concerned with bringing in the trojan horses (redesigned as trojan sheep) of chatcontrol and age checks behind the wall of liberal democracy, which is surrendering their constituents to tech. To Thiel and his ilk.

It is a lot more fucked that we realize. A lot more. I don't trust they would defend the honest vote of hungary to nike (greek victory).

[–] TBi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

The country folk there are very pro orban. And there is lots of active brainwashing going on.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he wins with a majority everywhere outside Budapest

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

The US has southern states, I guess the EU has Hungary.

[–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Putin’s dick-puppet.

[–] Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Disband the EU. Reform the alliance without Hungary. Do the same with NATO, only this time eject Hungary and the United States. Then eject the US from all bases on EU2 territory.

[–] FurryMemesAccount@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The EU (federally or state-by-state) would need to build an army first...

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago

Keep the EU. Form a separate treaty organization for Ukraine support, excluding Hungary and any other other members of the pro-Puto awkward squad.

[–] qwerty@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 month ago

It's not really a loan. It's supposed to be repaired from war reparations Ukraine would receive from Russia, which won't happen. So it's essentially a gift.