this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2026
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The modern automobile is safer, cleaner, more efficient, and more technologically advanced than anything that came before it. Yet those improvements have come at a cost. For many owners, mechanics, and independent repair shops, that cost is repairability.

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[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 9 points 5 hours ago

The replacement component often requires programming, coding, calibration, or authentication before the vehicle will recognize it.

A simple windshield replacement can trigger calibration requirements for cameras and radar sensors. A battery replacement may require registration procedures.

The main issue is built-in obsolescence.

[–] anomnom@sh.itjust.works 16 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Even old regularly easy repair work in early mid 2000s vehicles is getting worse because replacement parts quality has dropped off a cliff.

I regularly have to replace the same part 2, 3 times IMMEDIATELY OUT OF THE BOX because they’re defective or barely remanufactured (brake calipers are almost a complete crap shoot and new copies are harder and harder to buy, and if they arec can be up to 10x the price).

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 22 points 1 day ago
[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 38 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

As someone who fix car for a living and most car engine here is below 2.0L, i find that european car or european inspired car (chinese) are notoriously hard to fix. Some simple stuff can take hours to repair and that cost people more.

Like for example, recently one owner of Geely Boyue(1st gen) come in with an engine oil/coolant mixing issue, so the culprit is the oil cooler. To access the oil cooler i have to remove all the useless plastic cover, inlet manifold, fuel pump, water pump, and then finally the cooler. Then i also have to change the radiator because of the oil clogging the rad, which i have to take off the whole front bumper, headlamp, the front (plastic) frame, air cond condenser, turbo cooler, then finally to the radiator. Doing it at one go solo takes around 8 to 9 hours, separately takes about 4.5 - 5 hours each. And you have to handle it with care, because a mistake (paint scratch, snapped plastic) can cost you and your company, and you have to interact with shit tons of plastic. Hard to access wiring, bolts and nuts that is hidden from plain sight, all these bullshit drag the repair time to double digit. Not to mention if your radiator fan motor spoiled you have to remove the radiator to get to it.

Ohh did i mention how annoying it is to change the battery? I have to remove the whole cover with brittle plastic clip and cover and sometime the air filter box just to access the battery. Compare that to something like Honda Civic 2017, it's day and night.

I'd just considering myself lucky since i don't have to deal with the interior.

[–] Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I am not a mechanic and can't fix cars, but I have found the same to be true for just jumping a car with jumper cables.

Where is my battery on my 08 Toyota Corolla? Right there. I can see it.

Where is the battery in the 19 Honda pilot? Under some bullshit, have no idea where it is without a YouTube video and even then you need baby hands to fit through the junk and reach it without taking anything out.

Where is the battery in the 19 Toyota hybrid? I think it's under the trunk?? I don't know because by this point I had given up and just called a tow truck and purchased a portable jumper for my 08 Toyota I was trying to jump with those two vehicles from my family.

I'm not buying a new car until it rots out from under me.

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Regard jumping, i heard a lot of stories people jumping recently made car and destroyed some component. How true is that i'm not sure but i'm sure not willing to experiment it.

[–] Eximius@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

From science pov: It is outrageous bullshit.

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 hours ago

There's shit tons of myth that goes around the car industry that doesn't really pass the logic test, but you know, it's what spread around the street and to say it otherwise is a sisyphean task. Because to not following and then have the issue comes out, it would be on me.

[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago

snapping plastics is the most infuriating thing when it happens.

I have a fiat 500. I find it easier and cheaper to fix than my toyota. The diagnostic software is top notch and can even program keys cost under a hundred dollars. Since its close to the european version I have great documentation since in europe they don't paywall the repairs like they do in the US.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's unfortunate but this gets you more car per kilogram/millimeter.

That 2017 Civic probably uses more fuel than a significantly more spacious and comfier Euro wagon with a diesel engine,. My 2003 E-class could do just above 5 l/100km on the highway and had TONS of space. Like who needs a van if you have one of those. Newer ones with tighter engine bays get more space in relation to car length and also less weight for same amount of car AND get better fuel economy.

Really it's the third or fourth owner's problem when shit starts breaking at 300-400k km and you're constantly fixing it

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

5L = 1.32gal

100Km = 62 miles

So for US folks out there, that equates to roughly 47MPG

Diesel is great and all, but currently in the Midwest, specifically the Chicago area, GasBuddy shows "regular" 87 octane hovering around $4-4.10gal and diesel at ~$5.50/gal.

That 2017 Honda Civic achieved roughly 30mpg city/40hwy (depending on trim, engine, trans, etc) call it 35mpg averaged.

So if 35mpg costs you $4, and 47mpg costs you $5.5, then gas costs $0.114/mile and diesel costs $0.117/mile.

Now, technically speaking, diesel emits more CO2 than gasoline per gallon burned, however, because gasoline isn't as efficient per mile, diesel had a very slight advantage of being about 5% lower CO2 emissions per mile; however, it emits more NOx per mile.

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/Gas_v_Diesel_CO2_emissions_FV_20190503_1.pdf

All in all, they're pretty tied, IMO.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 10 hours ago

Yes, but don't forget, I was talking about a 2003 there. Before piezo injectors and actually efficient automatic transmissions. Newer cars, even with all the nasty emissions equipment ruining them, get better mileage.

Diesel and gasoline are priced the same where I come from, with diesel often being cheaper.

That Honda Civic would cost a bit more to run on a daily basis than a larger and heavier diesel wagon that can carry tons of cargo. Maybe about equivalent to a SUV like a 2018+ BMW X5 or similar in terms of fuel economy. Obviously much cheaper to maintain, but that was my point: For the first few owners, the overly complicated hunks of plastic are a much better balance of power, economy and refinement. 300-400k km is where they usually start breaking down bad if maintained to manufacturer spec (i.e oil changes rarely, transmission fluid change never)

[–] Changelin@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You might as well be talking about the Acura MDX. 2013, precisely.

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A lot more car is going that way, and i'm just a short asian guy with small stature trying to navigate the giant sized car that all designed to be a lengthy fix.

[–] Changelin@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 day ago

Lol. You're not alone, bro. 😂

[–] Randelung@lemmy.world 37 points 1 day ago

Years ago we made fun of the concept of an Apple Car. Now everything is Apple Cars.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 133 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Interesting thing here; I drive a 2013 vehicle. Other than regular maintenance, the only repair it’s ever needed was a rear bumper replacement and a bit of bodywork when someone rear ended me at a stoplight.

Contrast this with vehicles from the 1950s-1990s where sure, you could affordably repair them yourself or at the local garage, BUT that was something that became a regular event after the vehicle was 4-5 years old.

Personally, I’m more concerned with how manufacturers are closing off sections of the software in their vehicles such that it can’t be audited, security reviewed, independently patched, or modified to prevent all the telematics from flowing back to them.

[–] HiTekRedNek@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I fairly recently replaced a water pump in my wife's 2013 Lexus. Much easier than doing so in my old 1998 Accord. I didn't even need to pull the timing cover off, for hers.

[–] korazail@lemmy.myserv.one 2 points 4 hours ago

Ah... see, you two are about a decade too early for the OP issue.

I don't have a 2026-model car, since those cost as much as a house nowadays, but they also have a water pump; theirs with a microcontroller. Said pump won't work unless it's had it's special flavor of authentication handled so the computer in the pump (which adds non-negligible cost) can talk to the rest of the car. That's computer's only job is to tell the pump it's authentic and can work.

(I'm simplifying, I'm IT secops, not auto) Used to be there was a literal wire that ran from the turn signal stalk to the actual lightbulb. We replaced that with CAN bus, so the stalk just sends a "we're turning left" signal that the lights are listening for, like a home network where your computer sends a signal to the printer so you can print a document. In a home network, you might have a real threat vector of an attacker trying to intercept your locally-transmitted data, so there's a mild use case for encrypting everything to remove that risk.

In my car, there's no man-in-the-middle danger for someone trying to snoop on my turn-on-wipers signal. Other than aggregate data about how you drive, there's no data there to leak anyway, it's all operations. These manufacturers devised a system to 'protect' your car network, and are now leveraging it to spy on you (by harvesting your usage data in aggregate -- this guy likes to accelerate aggressively and turn without signaling) and also lock out third party parts by ensuring they can't talk over the local network because they are untrusted by the other parts.

There are documented cases where a car has been 'hacked', but those are generally... spoliers... cars with "genuine" parts with software vulnerabilities that don't need to exists in the first place, and maybe we could spend more time on ensuring the bluetooth stack can't even see the engine instead of ensuring the water pump must be able to prove it's legit.

(*Side note, While double checking my knowledge, I found this. It has a reference to MOST, and I can't imagine the self control needed to not name this 'Media Oriented Inter-Systems Transport' instead. I would not have made it.)

I think I'm preaching to the choir here, but back in early 2000s-2010s, we were still in a gilded age of car-can-have-computer-and-do-cool-thing, and now we are in car-must-have-computer-to-fuck-consumer. Same thing is happening in your phone, and soon will be happening in your house. "Sorry it's so hot in there, the non-samsung AC isn't compatible with your H0-US-3 model.

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 159 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I still don't get how telemetry is even legal.

If I purchase a vehicle from a previous owner, I do not have any agreement with the manufacturer regarding collection of my data.

[–] Jason2357@lemmy.ca 73 points 1 day ago

Clickwrap should have been made illegal when they started doing it a quarter century ago. If I put a tracker on your car, I'm a criminal, but if every automaker drops a clause into the "user terms" on their vehicle sales, then every car you buy gets tracked forever, perfectly legally.

[–] Johanno@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 day ago (3 children)

You agree when you use the car.

At least that is the legal claim.

There is a disclaimer when you start the car.

[–] tabular@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Who is there to agree with - the car is my property. All they own is the copyright to distribute copies of the software. Imagine a disclaimer on the front page of your copy of Fifty Shades of Grey.

Their legal claim will be the bullshit 1201 of the DMCA preventing you from breaking a digital lock on your own property to "rip out that first page".

[–] vrek@programming.dev 33 points 1 day ago (6 children)

Wait... Every car I ever rented, borrowed or owned never showed a disclaimer anywhere. What are you driving that shows a disclaimer?

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[–] Changelin@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

What choice do consumers have, anyway? Return the car cause you don't agree with the disclaimer?

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago

None that's why like Doctorow is saying there's no way to shop yourself out of these issues and it's time to get to politicking.

[–] Venator@lemmy.nz 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

and then what are you gonna buy instead, a second hand car from the mid 90s before they all started adding telemetry modules.

[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 hours ago

It's what i have and works just fine.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I did literally that.

The real solution is regulatory, though, because obviously my boycott has done absolutely fuck-all to change manufacturer behavior.

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[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 33 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

Yeah this.

Cars are storing so much data that the auto manufacturers were using "mechanics having access to all your telemetry data" as one of their big reasons people should vote against Right-to-Repair in MA.

Nobody really questioned what kind of data the cars store, or for how long. Nobody cared that this implied dealer mechanics already have access to all that data, and for some reason we are supposed to trust dealer mechanics with that data more than independents and shadetrees, or even ourselves?

No matter, the propaganda must've worked because the ballot initiative failed.

Moral of the story, listen to what people don't say. It's often more important.

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[–] OwOarchist@pawb.social 23 points 1 day ago (3 children)

or modified to prevent all the telematics from flowing back to them

A simple hardware modification is all you need there.

  1. Find the antenna for the on-board modem.

  2. Disconnect the cable that leads between that antenna and the car's brain.

  3. If necessary (if the car gives annoying/disabling errors after step #2), connect a high-ohm resistor between that antenna connector and the car's ground.

After that, the car will forever think that it's outside of signal range. And since operating while outside of cell service range is something even the most modern of cars still need to do, all of the car's essential functions will still work. You'll lose any internet connectivity features, of course. But in exchange, you'll have completely and permanently disabled any possibility of remote telemetry.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 day ago

Until you take the car in for servicing, at which point all that data will get downloaded to the service module and from there be transferred to the manufacturer.

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[–] TheStaffmaster@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In the 1990's you could look in the Uncle Henry's and get a decent used car for like $300. you'd register it, and it would last you a few years until it was too expensive to fix, (or it wouldn't pass state inspection) then you'd move on. In the early 2000's you could look on craigslist and find a decent used car for $500. Same deal. But by the time the housing bubble burst, I came to the realization that whatever the price of the car was, it would cost you $3,000 at the end of the day just to get it up and running. By the end of the 20 Teens, that number was $5k, and side of the road sales were junk that the seller knew was about to be REALLY EXPENSIVE to fix so wanted out from under it. These days, don't buy used from a private seller unless it's a collectable: the car is a money pit and they know it. This is one of those things where the auto industry enshittified to kill the resale market. Now they are starting subscriptions for features you used to get as standard. the infuriating thing is that the tech exists to build a car that will last 30-40 years, little major maintenance, but "it's not profitable," so they won't.

[–] amgine@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Contrary to this post, there are a number of low cost Toyotas on Facebook marketplace that will last another dozens or more thousands of miles if maintained. I have a tundra that I paid little for, that is in great shape.

[–] liimnok@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Trucks seem to be built to a higher standard. I bought a Chevy Silverado on the cheap and its got over 280,000 miles on it and shows no sign of stopping. Don't ask me about mpg tho....

[–] TheStaffmaster@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Sadly toyotas and Hondas are outliers in this area. Owned A 15' Venza until it got t boned this winter. still a bit cheezed about that. GREAT car, BTW. 110% recommend if you find a used one with low miles.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 47 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Improved reliability is, ironically a major cause of this problem.

Buyers of brand new cars in the USA keep them for fewer than ten years on average. If most cars can go ten years without needing major repairs, the car manufacturer's actual customer is not strongly motivated to consider repairability in buying decisions. The second or third owner likely cares a lot, but their preferences don't matter very much to manufacturers.

[–] Changelin@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 day ago

You can say that again.

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