Capitalist: No no, what you really hate is socialism.
Citizen: Why do I hate socialism?
Capitalist: Because socialism causes [lists problems created by capitalism].
Citizen: Wow, I sure do hate socialism.
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Capitalist: No no, what you really hate is socialism.
Citizen: Why do I hate socialism?
Capitalist: Because socialism causes [lists problems created by capitalism].
Citizen: Wow, I sure do hate socialism.
But also,
Citizen 2: [lists actual socialist policies while avoiding certain key words]
Capitalists: I can get behind that.
Let me fix that for you,
Citizen 1: I can get behind that.
Capitalists: You shouldn't, that's communism! Think of all the money you have to waste when you get rich!
And that's the core of it.
Every poor moron thinks that one day they will get rich and they don't want to ruin things for their future rich self. The don't actually DO anything to get rich, they don't have a plan, resources, much intelligence, they're not doing anything to improve their life, go to school, seek a better job, learn about finances. But one day, they'll be rich. They believe this until they get to about 50-60, their health issues start creeping up, then it starts to dawn on them that they're over the hill and have no real future beyond the current state of affairs--same life, but just older, sicker and weaker. THEN they sometimes wake up and see the bullshit, but it's too late.
Some of these people pick up a modest inheritance from their dead parents, but they usually piss it away in a few years, certainly aren't going to invest it, use it to build anything or have any expectation of creating generational wealth. They buy a big pickup truck and some assorted stupid shit, and it's wasted in a flash.
The other core is "I'd rather die of preventable diseases so long as black people suffer more"
Socialists are fans of socialism. Capitalists are persons who own capital, not fans of capitalism.
I'm in the medical field, and the number of people who absolutely despise private insurance, but despise public Health systems even more, for no reason, is too damn high.
They sound like my family. God forbid there be "socialized" healthcare that the "leeches" can benefit from, but also insurance sucks and doesn't pay for anything and whoops now we have medical debt.
They don't want their tax dollars to subsidize the care of anyone they think is less deserving than them, while they begrudgingly accept having to pay hundreds of dollars each month on an insurance plan that won't even cover the care they need.
And they want to see every change introduced by Obamacare undone, so, have fun going back to insurance plans that can deny you coverage just because you have a preexisting condition that they don't want to pay for.
Fun fact! The US is spending more on healthcare than it does on its military. By A LOT. The military gets around 4% of the federal budget, healthcare gets around 12%.
The US taxpayer pays MORE on healthcare in taxes than the the taxpayers in Switzerland or Norway!
Where does that money go, you ask? Why, to the pockets of the corpos owning private healthcare, of course!
Yep. Republicans like my family are still so focused on the idea of "welfare queens" and illegal immigrants who are sucking up their hard-earned taxpayer dollars, while completely blind to the fact that they are spending thousands in taxes and insurance premiums enriching corporate middlemen who provide little to nothing in return. So who are the real leeches?
...i always ask providers up-front what is my cost without using any insurance versus my out-of-pocket cost after insurance, and most of the time it's substantially cheaper not to use insurance at all even though it won't count toward my deductible...
...those private-industry middlemen are a huge burden on the healthcare system, and they persist only because their costs are hidden from patients...
I would also argue that few people have made a very good case connecting peoples concerns to capitalism. So to many it has a Southpark-ish ring to it: capitalism is bad. Don’t do capitalism. It’s an abstract thing, and abstract opponents make people feel despair and impotence.
The most persuasive people I’ve seen don’t use that word often. They directly link peoples concerns to inequality (unfair taxation and employment laws), climate ( fossil fuel companies) and unregulated abusive businesses such as big tech.
Those are not faceless, abstract entities, so people can organise their (justified) anger better.
Has anybody else heard good approaches for helping people understand ?
The most persuasive people I’ve seen don’t use that word often. They directly link peoples concerns to inequality (unfair taxation and employment laws), climate ( fossil fuel companies) and unregulated abusive businesses such as big tech.
This is the way. Lefty movements have rightly been criticized for being too academic. Expressing people's concerns in a more relatable and practical way gets more people on board.
totally. my latest ex is pretty socialist and anticapitalist, and i agreed with them on pretty much everything they said, but they drank the coolaid on using classical communist jargon to talk about stuff. half the time they would use definitions for words that were, to be generous, at odds with commonly accepted definitions. then they would get pissy and the discussion would devolve into semantics because they would only accept those definitions, while i was trying to use the normal definitions because of fucking course i would. so would almost everyone else. so in order to talk to them about government or politics without causing some kind of misunderstanding i would have to read a bunch of communist literature from the 1800s. i confronted them with the fact that this is a problem for the movement in general and they should be more straight forward with their words, but they just got pissy again.
it really sucks as a situation because theyre right, they just cant fathom that you cant expect people to read a bunch of old ass books in order to understand wtf theyre saying. add to that the jargon has been coopted and memed to death so every conservative gets triggered like a sleeper agent hearing the code word to execute their mission, we should probably abandon it and just talk in simple practical terms people can understand.
I can see why they're your ex.
every conservative gets triggered like a sleeper agent hearing the code word to execute their mission, we should probably abandon it and just talk in simple practical terms people can understand.
Hard agree.
If you’re willing to go “you’re absolutely right! What a good point!” every time the person you’re talking to aligns with you even a little bit like “you’re absolutely right, you work so hard it’s completely unfair you’re taxes are so high… and the taxes of the wealthy are so low in comparison!” they feel smart and validated and might not even notice you tacked on your own commentary and also avoid buzz words it’s actually not that difficult to talk to people in an effective way.
Presenting as a truck driving blue collar good ole boy before subtly bringing up how much we lose to income tax while the wealthy pay next to nothing is my technique. If they defend the wealthy they're lost to the boot polish, but that's pretty uncommon in my experience.
I've found "You work all day and get a small salary. The business owner sits around, and gets a huge payout. Does that seem fair?" is moderately effective.
You often get "they risk their money!" (so is gambling now something financially good?) or "they worked very hard to get there" (so why aren't they as burned out as the rest of the "less hard working" workers?)

Something most people miss is that the speed of change is a barrier.
You can do socialism fast or slow, the fast way is like a revolution, which most people don’t want since it sucks for the individual.
The slow way, which imo is the better way, is just doing policies that get you closer and closer to socialism within the capitalist framework.
The second way often means helping people who are less fortunate than the average person first, before getting to your average voter. That’s what individualistic societies can’t get past, they want their lives improved now. They fear they will vote for things that benefits poorer people and then the next government would come in before it’s their turn.
IMO the solution to this is obvious, focus on policies that literally benefit everyone. Don’t do select benefit programs, do problems that help everyone. UBI is a perfect example.
The thing about the slow way is that it's too readily reversible, and since the existing order allows the wealthy who would lose under such policies to consolidate power quite easily, those changes can be undone much more easily than they can be made.
And there’s the third method: subsume it from within. Build a capitalistic product that depreciates a category and eliminates demand, thus rendering entire industries and their related activities obsolete.
It’s why renewable energy is being fought tooth and nail.
Edit: and no, this is not my response to “fastest way to socialism”, this is more like “how to speed-run post-scarcity”
Just depreciate the worthless stuff. If the average person doesn’t need petroleum then that’s 1 less need they have to take care of. If electricity is so cheap from overproduction then it’s practically free.
And here’s where it gets controversial and I start getting downvotes on principle: AI is part of that.
policies cannot always benefit everyone. e.g. wealth tax won't benefit the wealthy, consumer protection won't benefit the corporates
Everyone except the wealthy.
Well public transport even helps the wealthy. It clears the roads for their cars
I think this meme fundamentally misidentifies the problem. People keep attributing every societal issue to "capitalism," when many of the things they're describing have very little to do with capitalism itself.
To be clear, I have plenty of criticisms of capitalism as an economic philosophy. Left unchecked, it incentivizes wealth concentration, externalizes costs, and often places profit ahead of broader societal well-being. There are legitimate reasons to criticize capitalism, and I don't particularly admire many of its outcomes.
My issue is with the inconsistency in this meme. The behaviors it's describing, pathological greed, regulatory capture, monopolistic behavior, and the relentless pursuit of short-term shareholder profits, are better described as corporatocracy than capitalism itself. That's a system where large corporations wield enormous influence over government and markets, insulating themselves from competition and shaping policy to serve their own interests.
If you want to criticize corporatocracy, I'm right there with you. But treating every economic or social problem as though it's simply "capitalism" is an oversimplification. Distinctions matter, especially when you're trying to identify the actual root cause of a problem. If we're going to criticize a system, we should at least be criticizing the correct one.
We are seeing people call it different things now, but "late stage capitalism" is moving to a post-capitalism of debit/leverage, where they don't even own the means of production, they are renting it with borrowed money.
Said it better than I could.
People are greedy; greedy for any resource they can control. Today it’s money. It could easily be something else.
“But they wouldn’t be allowed to!” They’re not allowed to do what they do now, but they force courts and opinions to work otherwise.
Everyone likes socialism, as long as it isn't called socialism. Two sides of the same coin. We've been duped.
It's even worse than that, they think the root cause is immigrants, minorities, and trans people.
The thing is most countries don't go around declaring themselves "we are a capitalist nation, we follow the capitalist ideology", so this seems pointlessly vague.
Weak twitter-bait.
People don't like any system, they don't like obvious corruption and being taken advantage of.
But the world is very comfortable right now. Wouldn't want to muck that up.
As if you can simplify it to one single cause
No seriously, if you pull off enough masks all of societies problems are just money and xenophobia in varying degrees.
I just spent 7 weeks researching organ shortages in the US for a class. Turns out live donations go up dramatically if you reimburse people for the money they lose while doing the procedures and families are more willing to donate the organs of the dead if they are told they're going to a similar demographic as them.
Homelessness? "Those people" don't deserve human rights and they don't have the money for housing. Xenophobia and money.
Opioid crisis? The pharma companies knew there were addictive and factored that into their push to get doctors to prescribe them like candy. This has been proven by internal documentation released in court. Money.
White supremacy? Don't even have to explain it. Xenophobia.
Rise of Facism? Xenophobia exploited for money.
Pay gaps between men and women? Xenophobia because women aren't taken seriously and money because it benefits the company to pay someone less.
Stagnant wages? Xenophobia because rich people don't think poors deserve money and money because they get more if we get less.
Racism in America? Xenophobia and money. Most racists are just raised to hate by previous generations. If you go back far enough for those you find that the hate came from considering the other as property and by turning them into people you hurt the owner's money. The seed was money and the fruit is xenophobia.
Christian nationalism? It looks like xenophobia but Surpise! It's money. Religious capitalism is the idea that God rewards those w who are holy and what better reward than wealth? So if you're poor, it's because god doesn't like you which means you're evil.
It is literally money and hate all the way down.