Background
I have been quite fascinated by Europe's continental suicide in the face of the failure of Project Ukraine and the fracturing of the "transatlantic understanding".
I think Europe still has time to choose strategic autonomy:
- Rapprochement with Russia to restore their energy competitiveness.
- Rapprochement with China to restore their global trade and industrial competitiveness.
- Seek out global markets to blunt the Trump tariffs.
- Pressure Ukraine to hasten their inevitable capitulation before they loose EVEN MORE LAND AND SOLDIERS.
Of course as we all know, the Western media has the complete opposite narrative, a jumble something like "Russia has lost 10 bajillion soldiers and they don't actually have military equipment at all and also advancing on the battlefield counts as losing if it wasn't as fast as we ourselves predicted it would be."
Content for the tribunal:
Mod actions: removed comments, banned from community
Responsible mod: Unknown to me
Link to First Comment (now removed)
First comment with better formatting:
- This war started in 2008 at the Bucharest NATO summit, when the US announced its intention to expand NATO into Ukraine and Georgia. EVEN EUROPEAN LEADERS like Merkel and Sarkozy noted AT THE TIME that the Russians would view NATO expansion into these countries as tantamount to a declaration of war. Over the next 14 years the West did a "color revolution", the Banderites did an ethnic cleansing campaign in the Donbass, and the West sabotaged and undermined THREE DIFFERENT PEACE AGREEMENTS before the Russians' famous patience finally expired in 2022.
- Ukraine doesn't need money to win the war, it needs TRAINED INFANTRY and to a lesser extent weapons. MOREOVER, anyone who thinks this money will last Ukraine even a whole year is delusional. The annual BASELINE burn rate of the Ukraine regime is 150B+ annually, and tax receipts are essentially nonexistent.
- They must be REALLY DESPERATE to risk the CREDIBILITY OF THE ENTIRE EUROPEAN FINANCIAL SYSTEM on this foolish gambit. They are breaking the very "Laws of Capital" that the West itself wrote. The Europeans seem determined to beat the Americans in a race to economic decline and collapse.
Tell me again about the "moral case" for stealing sovereign assets to prop up a stunningly corrupt regime in terminal collapse?
Looking forward to the tortured logic justifying my ban.
My Commentary
I know enough to know that they really don't like contrary narratives about Russia/Ukraine in any of the Euro-comms so I wrote my comments very carefully.
Can you, the esteemed commenters of YPTB, spot the misinformation or rage bait? Perhaps I am just blind to it in my own content. If present, did I "ragebait first" or did the other commenter?
Reminder that "Russia says this, therefore it is misinformation" is not a cogent argument or evidence.
Says who? The same people who are hoping to profit from an endless war with Russia?
No to both questions on so many levels.
This simply isn't a colonial enterprise, that doesn't even fit. The traditional argument is that Russia is acting imperialist/expansionist which I also reject. Russia has laid out their red lines very clearly. The West deliberately antagonizing and provoking Russia by loudly crossing their lines then acting surprised when the Russians enforce them is the height of stupidity and foolishness.
The "nothing" in question:
Their actions
You say, but then you go on to defend their actions....
So yeah, my original point stands. All the best to you, I hope one day you can realize what russia is doing is inexcusable, just like the us in Iraq. Just like Israel in... well everywhere around them... Just like the us in Venezuela... bullshit "justifications" through propaganda has people like you defending russian atrocious actions, I believe you are smart enough not to fall for this, if you take some time and realize what's happening, through an impartial lense
Sure, this isn't my first war.
If you really believe what you're saying, why won't you address any of my questions head on? Why do you keep retreating to talking points and hyperbole? Have you honestly considered the possibility that the West and Ukraine actually are the villains the Russians have been saying they are all along?
I believe that you are smart enough to potentially break through the narratives and see the world anew - but you have to take the fearful plunge of being willing to fundamentally question everything everyone has ever told you.
Whose side do you think I was on in 2022? The answer might surprise you
PS:
Please provide an example of "Russian Expansionism" that was not proceeded by a persecution of Russian speakers by a Western-backed radical right-wing government OR Western attempts to regime change a Russian ally. Ukraine has BOTH
Have you considered that russia isn't a hero saviour? I know the west has done, and continues to do horrible things, helping Ukraine defend itself from a war mongering russia isn't one of them.
That's straight up conspiracy bullshit.
You want me to question that residential schools are bad? You want me to question that the us's actions in Iraq, and Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc are bad? No seriously. Stop suckling at the teat of Eastern propaganda.
Yes definitely. As I implied in my previous comment, I was previously all-in on the Ukrainian side, checking ISW map every day, donating money etc. I don't believe I changed my view until the last year or so.
Uhhh...no, I didn't say anything about any of those. I was being imprecise for rhetorical effect but if we need to get specific what I believe you should question are beliefs such as:
The invasion is not unprovoked. We have surely dispensed with that propaganda narrative by this point in the conversation right?
You have mentioned "atrocities" numerous times. If we don't trust the media, then it's a natural step to not trust their reporting on these atrocities as well correct? Most of this will have to wait for the inevitable tribunal but are you at least willing to put all the reporting about "Russian attacks against civilians" in the "suspect" bucket based on the source?
Look, im tired of you pushing Kremlin propaganda. Have a good life, keep on beating that drum
So if the Kremlin says something that makes it false by definition?
Bye Felicia
👋