cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/10270361
As you may know, China is rather passive about the recent kidnapping event. Many people I talk to about it believe China and Russia are staying silent because they made a deal with the USA about Venezuela's oil sources. There are more conspiracy theories about the incident, but it's for another topic.
Furthermore, Türkiye granted visa-free travel to Chinese nationals, and there's a residential area being built for the new BYD Auto factory at Manisa city. These developments fueled sinophobia in Türkiye.
I talk about Turkish history here; feel free to skip.
Now, before talking about my question, I should briefly talk about why Türkiye is very xenophobic. Since the foundation of the country, the Turkish government has been pushing the narrative that every person living in Türkiye is Turkish and Muslim. They were teaching how Sumerians and Hittites were Turkic back in my parents' day to back this claim up. They taught me how Turks have been the legitimate settlers of Anatolia for thousands of years, and we are the true defenders of the faith at every level of my education—even at university.To strengthen the nationalist ideas, the government purged the Rums (Anatolian Greeks), Armenians, Jews, and non-Muslim Turks, then oppressed and massacred the Alawites and left-wing groups.
Decades under conservative and near-fascist polities made people prone to governmental propaganda. Now, the current government doesn't push anything against China because they need the money. But when you dictate to people that China was your “historic enemy” and grow them as xenophobic as possible, they will behave like that.
A lot of people here claim China has been pushing its agenda sneakily for years; by the 1980s, China became capitalist, and by the 2010s, it became imperialist. They are putting countries in debt traps and colonizing them by moving their populations to indebted countries and building businesses there. The kidnapping of Maduro inflamed this rhetoric, and now they claim China, Russia, and the USA set a deal for splitting Venezuela, like how the Allied Powers split the Ottoman Empire.
I know, and I try to explain why this isn't the case, but the conservative/reactionary roots run too deep to convince them. Before anyone tells me to stay away from those people, they should know it is like trying to stay away from the sands in a desert—I'm living in a country full of people like these. I must defend my case in the best way possible so at least they will know I'm not just saying empty words (this last bit would open another can of worms, but again, I'll refrain from diverting the topic).
Ask them to name what countries China has invaded.
When they say "tibet" tell them that tibet was part of China for over 1000 years and they reaffirmed in a treaty that it was part of China after the revolution. When they say Xinjiang tell them that was part of china 2500 years ago.
If they say Hong Kong or Taiwan inform them that nobody disputes that those are part of China and they haven't even used military force to make them reintegrate under the Chinese system of government.
When they say "the south china sea" you say that the RoC fascists who lost the civil war, signed the treaties defining the maritime zones of China when they controlled the China's UN seat, despite the fact that all they controlled was Taiwan.
As a Chinese commie, while I wish it was that easy odds are any lib or "leftist"(crakkka) you try this on will simply retreat to calling you a shill or a tankie and not actually engage with any of it.
It’s totally cool if not, but do you have any tips for an American learning Chinese? I’m just starting to get the hang of tones on certain Mandarin characters
While I don't know how helpful or useful this will be my advice is skip writing unless you have a specific need for it everyone just uses pinyin keyboards nowadays so just focus on character recognition and speaking.
The best way to learn is immersion, find yourself someone to speak in chinese to as often as possible and just consume as much content as possible in Chinese from Peppa pig to kids books to start. Languages tend to be use it or lose it. Best of luck! 加油！我们一直在为你打气。
I've been making decent progress using https://www.vidioma.com/ . Its basically just an organized collection of comprehensible input mandarin videos sorted by difficulty.
Yeah, these conversations can really only be had with other socialists who are earnestly trying to detangle themselves from imperialist propaganda of their own accord. Otherwise, it's fruitless most of the time.
Really, you can extend that to any political discussion. You're not going to convince anyone of anything if they are primed for debate mode.
They call you names because they have seen a truth they can't refute. Every time a westoid calls you a shill or a tankie is like the sound of a Pickaxe hitting a stone. the stone will break we just gotta keep swinging.
I recently read some of the book “Chinese Revolution of 1945-49” by Michael Lynch (I believe, not sure tho) and the shit I learned about ROC/KMT was SOOO bad, like they were funded by Hitler (before he allied w Japan)to kill Communists and when they fled to Taiwan they killed several thousand indigenous Taiwanese people who weren’t serving any threat to them whatsoever. I didn’t even read the full thing yet so I still have more horrors to discover
What about when they say Vietnam
They were defending their allies in Cambodia. It was a mistake but it wasn't an act of imperialism.
Rather disturbingly, when this topic came up in China with a group of people I befriended over there, they claimed that Vietnam invaded China. I didn't really know what to say. When I asked for their sources they have me some shitty jpg image with text all over it. Sadly I had no idea how to respond other than, that's not what I had been told. They told me it was Western propaganda, and I told them that that would make no sense because China and America were allies at the time and in the region, so why would they paint China as the aggressors. Anyway, I was a little disappointed to come face to face with Chinese brain worms.
There are a few popular Chinese nationalist takes on history that are still questionable. Like on Rednote, for example, you'll run into the narrative a lot that the Soviets became imperialists and tried to invade/nuke China. Lots of Chinese also still think nuking Japanese citizens twice was necessary, even though it's pretty well established with further analysis that Japan was eventually going to surrender to the US or the USSR anyway without the use of nuclear weapons.
The nuking Japan thing is pretty much gospel in the west too
Sure, but there is at least a sizeable academic challenge against that belief, even if mainstream Western culture still accepts the narrative that the bombs were necessary for victory over Japan. Maybe it exists in China too and I just havent been exposed to it.
On rednote I was told by a Chinese user that without the use of the nukes, China would have surrendered to the Soviets and the US but still continued their rampage into China. I'm not sure how true this is, since my understanding is limited. But thought it was interesting how the perspective of this event is viewed through their lens vs the West. As much as there is animosity between China and the US, there is still a widespread appreciation for America that they nuked Japan.