this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2026
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GenZedong
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It really depends on the criticism. I remember when I used to hang out on "left" twitter, on occasion I'd see stuff where it was like telephone game style personal spats that were impossible for an observer to follow and understand, and so it was more just the kind of conflict that might have been resolved with a proper sit-down and mediator, or at least clarified better what the problem was.
This case is pretty clear though just from reading the one tweet itself. It's a problem of ideological line and that's something we do need to crit in each other. Otherwise, we're just doing the liberal thing of going along to get along:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm
Self-criticism is common practice among MLs:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240425185930/https://www.newstatesman.com/long-reads/1934/10/h-g-wells-it-seems-me-i-am-more-left-you-mr-stalin
Unprincipled criticism, backbiting, etc., can be a problem:
But strong unity of the ML kind is forged by working through problems, not paving over them with social niceties in public while holding onto resentments in private (that's liberalism).
If people don't denigrate him, but criticize him in a friendly manner then i have no problem. It's just the all too common "character assassination" i have a problem with(, especially for such little things, and even more among leftists).
If it's just an occasion to discuss about the influence of genetics on behavior then i have zero problem with this, i just hope that people here won't suddenly hate yugopnik just for that, which is probably unlikely to happen, so i shouldn't have concerned myself with it.
I suppose that i just didn't want to resist posting that quote from C.Johnstone.
That quote was what i was alluding to(, while remembering one time when many people on Lemmy falsely accused Nutomic himself of being transphobic, with people exciting themselves over nothing and calling for his resignation, so stupid, the same thing happened for Linus Torvalds because he wrote a harsh email to someone working for him, let's just focus our anger on more productive things than bringing down people on our side) :
I don't generally try to operate on hate, myself. Except maybe for the most obvious exploiters of the world, but then it's more incidental hate as a result of finding out what horrific shit they've done, than an active preoccupied effort to hate. Hating someone takes energy. I'd rather put my energy into working out how to dismantle systems of oppression.
I am suspicious of people who purport to be on the left and say stuff like he did though. I feel I have good reason to be, given the history of internet-based "leftists" who are bad at sticking to a clear ideological line. It's possible he can be corrected on this and change his ways, but his position as e-celeb (however small the level of celebrity may be) makes it harder to directly engage in criticism with him, as peers. So we have to correct and warn people as we can.
As i said in another comment, he most likely doesn't really believe that people are born to be far-right, it's more of an insult saying that they were born with some innate cerebral deficiency, and that otherwise they couldn't possibly develop such p.o.v.
If i'm not mistaken he's often shitposting, it's an insult, that's all, not that deep, nor someone calling covertly for eugenics.
Anyway, if you don't suddenly hate him now, then ok, i probably overreacted and should have ignored that post.
This sounds a lot like the "schrodinger's douchebag" excuse:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schrodinger%E2%80%99s+douchebag
Anyway, insults are not just insults. They carry ideology with them. If I were to use a slur against you, it would be carrying water for the ideology of that slur, even if I don't actively believe in it myself.
That the far-right is mentally ret*rded
Yep, that would be a problem. Directing it at rightists doesn't give it the characteristics of leftism. It's still got the rightist stench clinging to it. This is why it's so important to interrogate reflexes even long after conscious beliefs change. Our habits do not change overnight based on what we believe in.
Yeah, ok, we're different from the right because we're differing on some goals AND on some means.
Furthermore, the far-right is just mistaken, everyone makes mistakes, obviously, it's not a genetic problem.
But i find it funny when he says that they're innately ret*rded, 🤷
W/e, i won't take more of your time
Why is it funny to you though? Keep in mind that the connotations of that word are tied to marginalization and caricature. It's possible you find a caricature funny without realizing that it's a harmful and hurtful representation of people who have never actually existed in the caricature form, in order to justify marginalizing them. In other words, it may be the joke is on you for thinking you're looking down on someone and you're laughing at a specter that was created to justify oppression.
We don't need to be ableist in order to laugh at the right sometimes. I'll tell you something I think is funny, when the consequences of their bullshit come back to bite them, like alluded to here: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/10509392
You're right, if other people than the ones i'm aiming the insult at are also hurt, then i shouldn't hurt them, we can do better indeed.
But that kind of internet trial in his back didn't please me, as i said before i should have just ignored the post.
It was sincerely very nice talking with you, thanks a lot :) !
proclaims unity
Uses divisive ableist language
Do better
Do they really care though if i use the word stupid instead of ret*arded ?
Is r*tard some kind of official name to designate them unlike stupid, like jew, dwarf, or n*gger, hence why it shouldn't be used in the context of an insult ?
Well, w/e, ok then, it's not as if i had any problem with the "mentally challenged" minority.
"they" are human beings
Now you're juste ragebaiting me(, if not from the start) 🙄
Why does every discussion i have online ends up in a clash, even on Lemmygrad ?
I'm sorry, are you just poorly articulating yourself or is your position that you agree with the assertion that people with intellectual disabilities are "not human?"
For your own personal development: its a mixture of failure to empathize, poor articulation, and likely a lack of reading and socialization/experience.
That slur is used against people who are disabled. It was historically created for that purpose, too, in a medical setting by doctors.
Do doctors still call them ret*rd ? And if they now call them mentally challenged, then am i allowed to use mentally challenged as a slur against someone else ?
No... You're an awful person and have no place in any leftist circle. This conversation is disturbing.
Then i'm allowed to insult someone by saying they're stupid, but not by saying that they're mentally challenged, otherwise it's an ableist slur, i think i got it(, not sure).
I've been banned for that, because i'm apparently ableist, which i know i'm not but what i believe doesn't matter. I won't be coming back so you'll say good riddance i guess, bye 🫶
You weren't being called ableist. The language you were using is ableist. There is a difference. Not all criticism is a personal attack on you.
This is a childish overreaction. I'm sure the ban wasn't meant to be permanent, just to give you some time to cool down. All you need to do is stop being so defensive, accept the comradely criticism and move on, and so will everyone else. You don't need to win every argument or immediately throw a tantrum and leave over being called out when you are wrong about something.
Even if you still think you are right, this is a ML space. It behooves you to accept the democratic centralist consensus on this issue. Leave your ego at the door.
I'm technically doing ban evasion so i won't stay long, but i can't help but continue to be curious, sorry. I shouldn't insult someone with the r-word because that's ableist, i shouldn't also say as an insult that they're mentally challenged for the same reason, but i can say that they're stupid, am i right ?
I'm not mocking you by asking this question, it may sound obvious to you but i live in France so we may not have that here( yet).
I've seen that it's a slur, but i honestly don't know if the r-word extend to the word "stupid", since there's no difference between these two medical terms(, my surprise can be understood i think).
Even words like dumb, stupid, imbecile, moron have always had an ableist subtext. But that subtext has somewhat eroded over time because we don't call mentally disabled folks those in a clinical sense (except for dumb). I don't like using these words myself but it's not a big deal to use these words.
R*tarded meanwhile to this day means mentally disabled as a clinical category. It is always used as an insult and a pejorative. It has the implication that mentally disabled people are subhuman. This makes the term exclusionary and robs disabled people from the chance of being a part of the rest of the society, something that is their right. Even "mentally disabled" is an uncharitable descriptor. Most people labeled as such are just different and can contribute to the society just as much as a so called able people can given that they are accepted and accomodated for. Conditions where there is a full spectrum mental disability are a subset of all the conditions which are labelled as mental disability.
Then there is the issue that most people you are calling r*tarded are in fact not technically r*tarded. They are being asinine for some other reason. But if you call them r*tarded you are insulting, along with them, all the mentally disabled for no good reason. At best you are inconsiderate and at worst you think disabled people are subhuman which makes you an ableist.
Ok, that's honestly weird, because the r-word simply means that they're a bit more late than others(, it comes from the french ret*rder = to delay), while mentally disabled implies that they don't have a mental world
And except for idiot(, mental age < 2-3 y.o.), imbecile(, 3-7 y.o.), and moron(, 7-12 y.o.), ...
I genuinely don't know why the r-word was an exception out of all these terms.
I also don't know how the r-word can rob them of anything(, just like calling someone an idiot don't seem to rob them of anything), but it manifestedly comes from a good intention.
I suppose that i can't insult someone of being a son of a b*tch since that'd be insulting to sex workers, implying that the latter are "subhumans". But i suppose that an insult like "piece of shit" is ok only because a shit isn't conscious.
Let's change our language to be less exclusive, why not. Let's also change the mods so that they're less of an asshole.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to explain all this in such a kind manner.