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Lol buying a gun won't fix anything. You need to train with it and connect with other people who know how to use guns (and who can get other resources for you) or well, Luigi Mangione can tell you the other option.
Just consuming gun won't fix anything.
My question is, why do authoritarians try so hard to disarm a populace then? It seems every person thinks we'll have a large formation of troops fighting it out and not turn this into any number of guerilla resistance movements against the USA and other countries throughout time.
There's 1.5 guns per person in the USA, but we also have the largest prison population per capita in the world.
I can't name an authoritarian that started by disarming people. My guess would be there comes a point where disarming the populace happens in authoritarian process as part of "disarming the enemy". When the enemy is the public, you disarm all of them.
So succesful authoritarians eventually just reach the point where the public is the enemy. They either get there by killing people or imprisoning them or starving them.
In the US they're making housing unaffordable. You sell your gun to pay rent, problem solved for the wealthy. There's much higher death rates for homeless people. There have been a number of stats that say the US has similar death rates to societies in civil wars.
If guns were used as a solution I think we'd see more sherriffs and deputies being shot during evictions.
How do you train with a gun if you don't have one?
You can get a gun without buying it. Luigi mangione allegedly bought about half a gun
Personally, I would rather not walk around with an object that would land me in prison if it were discovered.
Where I live first infraction for a ghost gun is a fine so prison seems a bit dramatic.
Not everyone lives where you live. If I'm giving advice on the internet, where people live in many different locales, I think "buy a gun" is better advice than "3D print a gun." Especially considering that 3D printed guns require more technical knowledge to put together and there's potential for misfires or even injuries if you don't know what you're doing. Not to mention the cost of the 3D printer in the first place.
You want to go that route, by all means, knock yourself out. But it feels like you're picking a pointless fight over this.
I don't think playing right into the arms industry's bosom is good advice unless you're serious about actually training and organizing around using a gun.
Owning a gun doesn't fix anything, hell using a gun doesn't fix anything. There's no guarantee when/if shit gets stupid you'll even be able to get enough ammo for the thing (let alone the issues with caching a large amount of ammo).
The only way guns are going to matter in a realistic sense is if people are afraid to shoot you because they'll get shot. If there's actually some kind of civil war you'll get guns an ammo from the army.
I've always just gone to the range with my friends who have guns. I'm not going to give the gun industry here a dime they don't need.
"The last rope they sell us will be the one we hang them with." I don't like the idea of giving money to war profiteers any more than you do, but it is an unfortunate necessity.
Um... yes. That's the point?
From what army? What are you talking about?
Is your plan to rely on the US government to arm the proletariat?
This is what you're saying will happen as a bunch of internet users with discretionary spending individually buy themselves a third tier weapon from Uncle Sam's Gun Shop.
1776 only happened because france fucked with the UK's big cash cow in the carribean at the same time. And it still resulted in chattel slavery. If thats your model for proletarian revolution it sucks.
It was the slave revolts afterward that ended slavery and caused the south to rise up becausw they saw the writing on the wall. Do you think the slaves went out and bought their own guns?
Now, the US has the highest incarceration rate per capita and ICE is funded currently to double the amount of prisoners in the country.
Individualistic, consumerist thinking will not result in a "proletarian revolution" that's just a bunch of people cosplaying freedom while they ignore the actual shit going on around them.
What a bunch of delusional nonsense. If enslaved people had the opportunity to buy guns, then obviously they would have, and obviously they would've been right to do so. Perhaps I should avoid reading and writing, since slaves were often not permitted to learn those things.
1776 was a bourgeois revolution, it is not "my model for proletarian revolution" and I don't have the slightest idea where you pulled that from. You are aware that countries outside of the US have had revolutions, right?
"Buy a gun" is not "individualistic, consumerist thinking" you absolute clown.
1776 was the revolution where a bunch of people "bought guns" its the "individual buys a gun" revolution. You know the exact thing you've been saying and then getting upset whenever anyone elaborates on it in any way.
Nobody in any other revolution bought any guns.
Again: Do you understand that countries outside of the US exist?
That's obviously not what I'm saying. Most revolutions people did not buy the gun they used. The only examples we have of ones where everyone "bought their own guns" sucks. That's what I'm saying.
This line of "logic" is so fucking ridiculous I don't even know how to reason with it.
Let's say "the army" decides to start handing out guns to people. What if they don't have enough guns to go around? Because it seems to me, that every gun a person already has is one less gun that "the army" has to procure somehow. It kinda seems like people who did the evil bad "individualist consumerism" of bringing their own guns to the revolution are actually bringing a greater contribution than they would have been able to otherwise, doesn't it?
This comes down to ammo. if you have a bunch of guns they're going to be useful until it runs out of ammo. If you are caching huge amounts of ammo and guns then yes that's useful as long as you or your allies keep control of it. And caching ammo is harder and more expensive than just buying a gun.
Like if your "military" is providing .223 ammo that .308 rifle isn't going to be too useful for very long.
The consumerist stuff isn't "bad" its just "not useful" to the point I'd say its "deliberate misdirection".
Right, when I said "buy a gun" obviously there was no implication that you should also buy the appropriate ammunition to use said gun. I'm just telling people to buy unloaded guns to put on their mantles to look at.
Are you telling them they should buy like 10 boxes of ammo and store them in different locations in case they lose access to a location?
No you just tell everyone to "buy a gun" like its a magic ward. You downvote comments that say "that's not enough"
I downvote your comments because they're pointless nitpicking, not because you say "that's not enough." If you had said, "Also, train, join an org, and read theory" I wouldn't be downvoting you. Instead you said, "lol buying a gun won't fix anything" and dismissed the suggestion as "individualist consumerism." That's not "going further."
I'm sorry that the pithy ending to a comment that was primarily about the history of Kent State was not a detailed outline of every possible tactic that could be effective at resisting.
Yeah, I agree, you really fucked up the ending to an otherwise good post.
No, I didn't. You just randomly decided to start attacking me based on a bunch of flimsy bullshit.
You ruined the entire post by ending it with a poorly thought out conclusion. "Buy more ovaltine" level of dumb at the end. All you have to do to change my mind is edit the ending to something not as dumb.
Yes, it's exactly the same as telling people to buy ovaltine. Ovaltine will definitely help you kill fascists just as much as a gun will.
Your position is so fucking stupid, and every angle you tried to defend it from has fallen apart under the tiniest bit of scrutiny. Including this one.
Thanks debate-me-bro so glad to have you on my side. I can't wait for the glorius revolution where we all look at the guns on our mantles and jack off to them.
Lmao! Too much of a clown for me to even satirize you.
I clearly went too far because I was satirizing your mischaracterization of other people's arguments that you really didn't address but said you did (powerful obama giving a medal to obama meme energy).
I'm obviously more of a syndicalist. Buying "a" gun won't do anything meaningful in and of itself. We need some people to buy a lot of guns and ammo. Not everybody needs to buy a gun, there's more guns than people here as it is. The gun threshold, if anything has already been reached. If it gets to the guns mattering we've already lost a thousand battles.
We need lots of people thinking about each other. We need people thinking about things like food, water, waste, etc. Like the US government has never caved because somebody shot a bullet at them. They cave because airports get shutdown, because trash stops being collected. The guns help if it goes further, but the step before the guns is the determinate on whether the guns will work or not.
Like a bunch of military drones come through your door you won't even have the opportunity to kill a single fascist. You're just dead, killed by a guy essentially playing a video game. A missile is the same thing. There's no heroic fantasy where just owning a gun lets people takedown a fascist.
My main real issue is the one size fits all prescription. "Buy a gun" is just so overly simplistic and dumb and we more than likely have enough.
Whose arguments did I mischaracterize in the initial comment I made? The National Guard's? What a load of horseshit, you came out of the gate attacking me for no reason.
What does it matter if one person buys 10 guns to give to 10 people, or if 10 people buy their own guns? The end result is the same. You're just putting ideological hangups before pragmatism.
None of which is precluded by buying a gun.
Neither of these is correct. For example, the US government caved when the NVA shot a bunch of bullets at them. They also have the capability of suppressing strikes at gunpoint, if it comes to that. Just as they did the student demonstrators at Kent State. Strikes can be effective, but if you have no capability to fight back, then it's not likely to be enough.
Of course. I never disputed that. But they aren't sending drones or launching missiles, they're sending people.
That's just obviously false. Are fascists impervious to bullets now? Is Charlie Kirk still alive, then?
You're clearly just reiterating your belief in gun ownership and not addressing anything. "Buying a gun" is the tankie version of libs saying "go vote". Solves nothing, they say it will fix everything. Might help in a very niche scenario that nobody disputes but is so ridiculously overprescribed as to be a useless platitude.
If you're actively hunting notable fascists that's totally different than just "buying a gun". That is a very specific type of gun use and like the kirk shooting was somewhat tragic because the kid that shot him will be going to prison. He bartered a lot more than a few bucks for that outcome.
If like a couple dozen people started doing that the fascist movement would likely lose most its notable members in a year.
Where did I say that it would "fix everything?" Weren't you just complaining about "mischaracterizing arguments" (which I never did)?
Again, you're just looking for reasons to attack me for no reason. No idea what crawled up your ass but it has nothing to do with anything I've actually said.
You said the magic platitude. If somebody put "go vote" at the bottom of the kent state shooting I would also have issues.
So I'm not allowed to tell anyone to do anything if that one thing doesn't magically fix all the problems in the world?
If its a stupid platitude and you're writing an otherwise good post about kent state, yes.
Let things be complex. You don't need to prescribe gun ownership after fucking kent state. You don't need to tell people to go vote, either. Its so fucking dumb.
That's stupid. If I went into sufficient depth to satisfy you (and only you, btw), nobody would read it because of the length.
I've addressed all your objections and each time you just invent some new bullshit to try to justify why you got all pissy in the first place. Just fuck off already.
You never addressed my first post. You literally did a "how you train with gun without buy guy" gotcha thing then just never addressed it. You still havent addressed it, truth be told.
So again, you're just responding to shit. Its not even new bullshit. I'm just saying the same thing over and over again in different ways. "Buy a gun" is an overprescribed oversimplified conclusion and the reason you didn't connect it to kent state is not because it would be "boring" but because its trite "go out and vote" type bullshit.
Man, fuck off. Like you didn't make shit up over an over, that whole "1776" line, get the fuck out. Just drop it. Reply again and I'll block you.
"buy a gun" is the 1776 line. You can't really think that offering the same exact advice as fascists is actually effective, do you?
Go ahead and block me. Imagine the kind of trite bullshit I'll miss out on.
WHICH I REFUTED ALREADY, JUST LIKE I REFUTED YOUR 3D PRINTER BULLSHIT AND EVERY OTHER STUPID BULLSHIT POINT YOU RAISED, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE.
Blocked.
Being blocked has never hurt so much.