414
‘I don’t date at all now’: one woman’s journey into the darkest corners of the manosphere
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2025
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I understand you’re being well-intentioned but this is such a great example of how society has failed to recognize these partners as victims as it continues to put the onus on the victim to deal with the abuser.
TL;DR: Victims of abuse are victims who need external assistance. The abuser needs to be dealt with. You are putting too much of the onus on the victims (and in some ways the blame as well though I highly doubt that’s your intention) when you say “they need to take responsibility and leave.”
The fact that you know someone who stays with someone who thinks she shouldn’t vote should tell you how seriously difficult this all is.
Agreed. Assistance, implementation of which requires understanding of why they're not leaving those assholes, worse, returning to them, or fall into the same pattern with a different asshole, all on their ostensibly free will.
The question is "how can the capability to leave the abuser be built". It involves, in one way or the other, a change in the victim. Getting better at leaving pieces of shit.
Seriously I have difficulty, and this might be male perspective, to equate "need to get better at" with the frame "you're at fault". At some point, I needed to get good at cooking. Was it my fault that I couldn't cook? Nope. It's not like I didn't show interest as a kid, it's that noone ever bothered to actually teach me anything, so I didn't know anything. Still had to get good at it. It's a problem so you solve it. Why would I care wasting my breath blaming my upbringing it only distracts from learning. It can provide an excuse, but excuses don't make dinner.
Ah, fuck it, let's risk it. My edgetake on why some women end up again and again with assholes: Because noone told them (early enough?) that they can go to a kind guy, start a tickle fight, and get all the thrill they'll ever want. It's a function of attraction to the capability to throw down.
Unfortunately this is a very gendered/male take, I agree with that. You’re falling into the same pits I described above. You’re essentially saying “just nut up and do it.” Comparing it to overcoming the inertia of not cooking for yourself is, frankly, bizarre to me. That isn’t the same situation at all. Your kitchen isn’t some force conspiring against you. Your cookware isn’t changing tactics and emotionally manipulating you or taking away your phone.
No. I said that the question is:
I didn't ever compare what's necessary for that with learning to cook. The cooking thing was about how it's silly to go from "doesn't know how to" to "you're at fault". I used, specifically, an example far enough from abuse so it could be a general point, not tangled up with the dating assholes bit.
Where I did get into "How can it be built" was my edgetake later: Figure out why assclowns are so damn attractive that some women go back to them, put up with them, and then don't blame the woman for having that attraction, but find a safe outlet. I'm sure that's not the whole of the solution but I do think that it's a necessary component.
I don't understand your argument and you haven't addressed the issue at hand.
Please spell out for me why a woman in a relationship with a man who believes that women shouldn't have the right to vote, can't exit that relationship?
Note that the person you responded to didn't mention abuse, you introduced the term "abuse". We're talking about women in relationships with assholes, not abused women.
You may better understand what someone is saying if you respond to their whole sentence and not just the part you wanted to attack.
Abuse is abuse regardless of how small you as an outsider perceive it. Women in relationships with assholes who believe they should have no rights are always being abused by the aforementioned asshole.
Firstly, the original commenter who described the kind of relationship we're discussing didn't say "no rights" they said "shouldn't be allowed to vote" which is a very much more limited view than what you're raging against.
That's not the situation that was described by the original commenter. Just because someone is an asshole and has reprehensible views, doesn't necessarily mean that they are abusive. There's a difference and if you can't see and acknowledge that difference then you're just engaging in misandry. In which case, best of luck, take care, bye now.
You sure do like to cherry pick and blast incel rhetoric eh?
Don't worry about further response, you aren't worth the time.
Misandry is when someone says men who believe women shouldn't be allowed to vote are abusive.
Thank you for that elevated, nuanced take, king.
That's not what I said. I said there's a difference between being an asshole and being abusive and if OP can't see and acknowledge that difference then they're engaging in misandry. I didn't say anything about voting rights and misandry. Please don't put words in my mouth or misrepresent what I say.
That’s a ridiculous distinction and to hinge accusing someone of engaging in misandry on that just tells me you recently found a new word to make your red pill-lite views more palatable.
I'm not sure what distinction you're referring to. I don't care either.
Edit: for that matter, I'm mystified as to why you are continuing to engage with me if you genuinely believe that I am victim blaming. Unless you don't genuinely believe I am victim blaming, in which case why would you accuse me of that. Despicable.
"Oh, I'm spreading rhetoric that hurts people? Why are you even responding to it, then?"
Your entire edit is actually a perfect microcosm of the victim blaming mentality, but (poorly) disguised as a virtue signal about victim blaming. Well done mate. Despicable.
waiting for his brave take on men’s rights and reverse discrimination
That's not really a fair characterisation of the situation given that they said elsewhere:
"Later dude. This isn’t going to be productive."
Look, I wanted to come back and apologize. We are clearly ganging up on you a little bit here and this has gotten kind of nasty. I’m sorry for my part in it, and I don’t like being a bully/contributing to negativity online. Yet I did, and I own that.
I seriously, honestly insist that you take a look at what we were talking about earlier and really assess the discussion critically. I imagine you mean well, but thereare some seriously troubling implications with your rhetoric and the way you are talking about these subjects. You don’t have to agree with us, but I think if you take a step back and just give it some thought you might see at least some small thing worth addressing or reconsidering. Have a good one, sorry again
If you believe that hateful, harmful ideas shouldn't be challenged and should be allowed to stand on their own as long as the person spewing them is sufficienly annoying, sure, mate. Unfair characterization.
Or maybe you just said even dumber shit in response and they changed their mind. Even the brightest among us may never know. Truly confounding.
You have now retreated to "but they promised they would stop talking," btw. Just keeping you aware of the scoreboard here, so to speak.
I don't see any challenging, just flailing.
Oh dear.
Finally, we agree on something. Cheers.
That edit is despicable
Have you forgotten the entire context of this thread? Did you even glance at the article? They also talked about women “not leaving piece of shit men” and a man who doesn’t want his partner to vote. Can you really not infer anything from that?
Nope.
I read every word.
That is not what they talked about. They said "men who genuinely claim that women shouldn't be allowed to vote". That is not the same thing as a man who displays controlling behaviour over their partner.
There's no need for anyone to infer anything in this discussion, it's quite clear and explicit what people are talking about.
You have a very narrow understanding of what abuse is and clearly you can’t extrapolate larger points and only take things at face value, so I’ll be direct and concise: you are defending and engaging in victim blaming as you hide behind cheap rhetorical tricks.
Later dude. This isn’t going to be productive. You’re clearly grinding an axe about some social hangup you have.
LOL bye now
Steven Hassan's BITE model is a good start for that kind of information, the interesting thing being that a lot of those cult-manipulation techniques are visible in anything from individual relationships (not just romantic ones either, parent/child in either direction, "friends",...) over cults and religions to workplaces and political movements.