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OH NO! THE FREE MARKET IS WORKING BUT NOT IN OUR FAVOR!!!
Genuine question is this the free market?
Is the CCP subsidizing these super cheap cars?
Which isn't to say the US isn't doing the same. 2008 should've meant the death of much of the American auto industry
The CCP didn’t just subsidize cheap cars. They built out the manufacturing capacity to produce them at scale.
As China’s demographics shifted and long-term labor supply came into question, they leaned heavily into automation and industrial efficiency.
That’s the real reason these cars are so inexpensive. It’s not just lower prices, it’s a fundamentally different cost structure driven by scale, integration, and advanced manufacturing.
What’s unsettling competitors isn’t cheap cars themselves.
It’s the ability to consistently produce cars more cheaply than anyone else.
Oh they likely are, just like the us does for their own auto industry. The free market part is simply a cheaper car that appeals to more people, it coming from China is the only thing really holding it back. Well and maybe the spying, but I don't know how bad these are on that front.
Don't forget the headline that came out the other day about how new US cars post-2027 model year are required to have federal surveillance installed.
We're already being spied on, and I'd much rather China be doing it than fucking Palantir.
We are not being spyed on as long as we are not american or don't buy new cars.
Every state does internal espionage on its citizens, and external espionage on other states.
Just because you don't live in USA or China doesn't excuse this.
Yes, but that is no reason to invite more of it. And this is not even government spying (they get the data I am sure) but corpo. A bad thing happening does not make it OK or normal.
You're not inviting more of it. You're trading spying done by one nation/corp with spying done by another.
Unless you think European espionage is somehow better than Chinese espionage.
No I am not, I will not be buying any new car with spying tools in it. Its not an ether or, its a choice. If China puts out a car without touchscreens and spying they will become world sales leaders almost over night. That is how the free market is ment to work, but america has ruined the very concept (as is tradition) and not buying shit is not even seen as an option anymore.
Why do you have confidence that complex products like cars made, bought, and sold in the EU DON'T have any level of surveillance equipment installed to benefit the intelligence arms of the EU and its member states?
Hard to believe in 2026.
I don't and never stated anything about the EU or their cars. But best of luck in your argument with the person you have replaced me with in your head.
I used the EU as an example. You never stated where you were going to purchase this ideal car, nor where this car would have been made.
How are you confident that even "old" cars made recently don't have surveillance equipment installed by some actor, corp or government, similar to how smartphones have backdoors accessible to state intelligence agencies?
Unless you plan on buying cars before the addition of built-in GPS or "OnStar"-like systems, and clearly before cars started having built-in Wi-Fi and touchscreens, no car out there is entirely open-sourced in terms of hardware and software.
If you do plan on finding vehicles before that time period and can take care of one so it's efficient and meets emissions standards, more power to you.
My original point about me critiquing you for calling out Chinese spying on their vehicles bought and sold in foreign countries still stands. As cars become more and more integrated with the Internet-of-Things (IoT) and has remotely telemetry capabilities, and if open source regulation lags behind, spying is the norm regardless of country. It's biased to only think that China does this.
I daily drive a 1985, the newest I have ever owned is a 2008 and will not change unless they make a non spying car. I have education in computer science and do know when a device is reporting in so no I will never have a vehicle with any sort of on star.
And this is the poison america has given to the world, the idea that you have to buy this shit. If people actually had the option to not buy the bullshit new they would. But the options are just removed, and not organically but from a cabal system of corporate interests. But there is a silver lining, people can not afford these new spy cars and debt is running out. The stuff around me driving around seems to be 1995 to 2010 at the moment, not due to what people prefer but what they can afford.
The idea that people have to live with shit is pathetic. As I said if given the option people would take the cheap non IoT things, but they don't make that stuff. The free market has become the freedom to buy what they sell you, and that's perverse.
And at the end of the day, I'd rather have my data stolen by a country looking out for my own interests as a working class individual who doesn't own a house nor business nor factory than by a country looking out for the interests of the elite that game the system year over year looking for new ways to fleece working class individuals of all they own.
Espionage can be used to uphold good systems of governance, so long as it is the capitalists being spied on first and foremost.
So not the us, or China as both have a very bad track record? And once again why is it "at the end of the day" being phrased as a choice between who is spying on you? Fuck that, don't let them spy on you, you should not care about "good" spying anyway. Why are people (mostly americans) such pushovers? When did everyone get a oppression fetish? Why is not wanting to spend stupid amounts of money on a device that lets your insurance, car company and government spy on you now seen as weird?
What track record?
Oh, wow OK. I did not appreciate your level of willful ignorance. Well I know when continuing is pointless.
Ditto