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I keep living at this point simply because God wants me alive. If He didn't, He would have killed me by now. When I was in a really dark place (I'm doing better now), I realised that killing myself was pointless, because if it was my time to die, God would take me from this life regardless. So God must still have a plan and uses for me and thus, I should still be alive, and that's meaning enough for the fact that my body continues to operate.
I've got a lot of respect for theists, and would truly love to be convinced of this sort of perspective. Thanks for bringing it to the table!
Thank you! I don't want to seem pushy or pressuring, but what eventually convinced me was the historicity of Jesus Christ (as opposed to scientific arguments, etc) and it kind of hinged off of that.
This is what I watched.
Okay, I've watched the videos, but unfortunately they don't fix my main issue with the bible, that being there are no contemporary (as in written within the subsequent decades), non-Christian sources for any miracle alleged in the bible. In particular, the dead rising and walking around the towns on Good Friday as talked of in the Gospels isn't recorded in any Roman source we have from the time, and I think that such an act would have been recorded. It seems to me that it is more likely that these stories of miracles survived with Christians for a few hundred years, before being disseminated into the popular account of Jesus' life as Christianity grew in popularity.
They also don't fix any of my other problems with Christianity, such as the problem of evil, principally relating to animal suffering, or divine hiddenness. Still, I feel more informed than before, so thank you!
Matthew 27:51-54
I struggled with the tomb openings as well. An interpretation I've heard for it is that they were spiritually resurrected, to show that they were free from Hades and appeared in spirit (Christians commonly refer to this as "The Harrowing of Hell") to show that. There isn't much of an indication that they were there for too long - the tombs breaking open could have been a result of the earthquake as well.
I think it is important to remember how records survived- There is no historical written record of Pompeii (which likely held a lot of high ranking Romans) being destroyed. Just a single reference to it by Pliny the Younger. It was likely witnessed by a quarter of a million people, though, yet all we know about it is archaeology. So I believe it is actually completely possible that the only written record we have of the saints breaking free from the tombs in a rebellious city on the edge of the empire is from Matthew. John even said more stuff happened that he couldn't even write down.
John 21:25 ESV
It is also worth noting a similar objection existed to the existence of Pontius Pilate until 1961 when they found a rock with his name carved onto it, and from there it was treated as historical fact.
I believe how stuff was recorded then compared to now differs greatly. Something happens in a village here and several articles are written and published for the world to see. While back then, someone had to write it down on paper, and for that to survive until now the paper had to either not get destroyed over 200 years, or be copied several times.
I suppose my issue there is that you have shown the reasons I believe in the other events, but not in Jesus' miracles: we have archeological evidence for Pompeii, and a separate source for Pontias Pilate. If Pompeii had just been the offhand reference by Pliny then I don't know if it would be so easy to believe. But I've grown up able to literally see the ash covered bodies. And I think you've summed up the issue with Pilate exactly, that he was only known of from one source, until we had another corroborating it.
Should any extra evidence present itself for the rising of the dead on Good Friday, I'll be a lot more likely to come around, but I still don't think that it can be appropriately corooborated.
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk this out, I'm definitely something of a bible novice so your help is very appreciated :)
The thing is, what archaeological evidence could you produce for Jesus' miracles? Same with dead people walking about for a few days. In terms of social status, Jesus was a peasant. Possibly the stepson of a carpentry business owner (since He seems to be well educated and referred to as a carpenter) so not growing up living in dirt, per say, but was still just an ordinary dude. I've heard some people make a case for the Shroud of Turin, but I wouldn't base my faith on it. As people also have opposite arguments and it kind of randomly appeared in like the fourteenth century. In terms of archaeology, I believe the best thing we have is evidence for the Church itself- followers of Jesus. If you don't mind me posting another YouTube video, here you go
Thanks for the video, will check it out!
I think that my main issue is that this stuff is just straight up supernatural, to the point where I would need hard evidence, for example contemporary accounts from people neutral towards or opposing Christianity before I could believe it. I'm not going to commit to believing in something unless there is appropriate evidence for it, and Jesus' miracles just happened too long ago to be verifiable.
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about this!
That's understandable. Although I would say, that if someone from that time were to see Jesus' death and resurrection, they may be more inclined to believe.
However, Josephus does document Jesus and claim He is the Christ, and the Jewish Talmud claims He was a sorcerer and practitioner of dark magic. Pliny the Younger also documents Christian worship shortly after the time of Jesus.
Not to bully your belief here but how would you justify this with the fact that God allows many really bad people to live? Just curious of understanding this mindset and I hope this doesn't offend you.
I tried to justify this (if one insists on the existence of a god), through the argument that dangerous and bad things exist in nature as well, such as storms, lightning, floodings, earthquakes, and chimps that go to war with each other etc. and likewise, violent and bad things exist among humans.
However, I cant really convince myself that it's comparable. Actual evil did not really exist before be came along and started torturing each other. (The church and christians have been through many iterations of hard questions and tough answers to their own riddles, and overall, I think it has been a sum positive for humanity, in trying to explain, and to figure out the question of evil in general.)
So no, I don't have a, from the hip, justification from god, why evil people would still exist. Perhaps the world just is a better place, with snakes in it, than without. It gives us something good to do?
I can however confidently state that really bad people have been here among humanity many times before, and they have all, in one way or another, left again, and somehow we manage to sustain a world, that is continuously improving and trying to become a better and better place. Getting rid of bad people, snakes, and natural dangers.
I know that there are serious crises and problems we still have to solve, but we tend to forget all the past evils that we have defeated. We are not being actively overrun by mongols from the east, and not every family loses several small children before they reach the age of 5. Most people have enough, and we still keep working to make sure that fewer and fewer people will suffer in the future.
Ngl that's a really unsatisfying position imo. There are and have been people who had nothing but suffered in their entire existence with zero meaning like slave babies born with extreme deformities. This thought exercise completely dispels any idea of a present god in my point of view.
Yeah I agree. There are some absolutely ridiculous explanations and excuses, to answer plotholes like that. "The Lord works in mysterious ways". We have more than 1500 years of made up explanations, to solve made up statements.