Games
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you're submitting before posting to see if it's already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don't share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don't want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
Authorized Regular Threads
Related communities
PM a mod to add your own
Video games
Generic
- !gaming@Lemmy.world: Our sister community, focused on PC and console gaming. Meme are allowed.
- !photomode@feddit.uk: For all your screenshots needs, to share your love for games graphics.
- !vgmusic@lemmy.world: A community to share your love for video games music
- !freegames@feddit.uk: A community sharing free games giveaways.
Help and suggestions
By platform
By type
- !AutomationGames@lemmy.zip
- !Incremental_Games@incremental.social
- !LifeSimulation@lemmy.world
- !CityBuilders@sh.itjust.works
- !CozyGames@Lemmy.world
- !CRPG@lemmy.world
- !horror_games@piefed.world
- !OtomeGames@ani.social
- !Shmups@lemmus.org
- !space_games@piefed.world
- !strategy_games@piefed.world
- !turnbasedstrategy@piefed.world
- !tycoon@lemmy.world
- !VisualNovels@ani.social
By games
- !Baldurs_Gate_3@lemmy.world
- !Cities_Skylines@lemmy.world
- !CassetteBeasts@Lemmy.world
- !Fallout@lemmy.world
- !FinalFantasyXIV@lemmy.world
- !Minecraft@Lemmy.world
- !NoMansSky@lemmy.world
- !Palia@Lemmy.world
- !Pokemon@lemm.ee
- !Silksong@indie-ver.se
- !Skyrim@lemmy.world
- !StardewValley@lemm.ee
- !Subnautica2@Lemmy.world
- !WorkersAndResources@lemmy.world
Language specific
- !JeuxVideo@jlai.lu: French
view the rest of the comments
On the lack of a physical disc, I’m gonna play devils advocate here and just remind some of you that, while it’s fucking stupid these companies are selling boxes with codes in them, as that is absolutely not a physical release, the days of physical media are over.
Blueray discs max out at around 4Mbp/s write speeds. Meanwhile SSDs can read data at 400-500 MB/s, and NVME Gen 3 alone can do at minimum 1.5 GB/s. The fact is that modern games are just too massive in scale to warrant those slow speeds on disc. Even ignoring the physical constants of Blueray Discs, which max out at around 30-40GB of data at the top of my head, (GTA 6 is guaranteed to be over 100GB) the game is constantly streaming data at rates that those discs just can not feed to the hardware.
I’m personally just sick and tired of people getting up and arms about this, acting like it’s a choice to not bundle games on physical media anymore when there is a genuine physical limitation to this. To clarify I personally believe that these companies and researchers could come up with a newer technology for this. So, it’s not JUST physical limitations. I think Sony and Microsoft, and the various other publishers know that in the long run they save money without having to manufacture physical media, plus digital sales effectively make the used game market extinct. But that takes money and time to develop new technologies. We have flash storage that is 30x faster nowadays. It’s not worth it.
Feel free to ignore my rant. Just had to get this out as I’m sick of seeing misinformation spread that they can absolutely get these games on disc. They can’t.
Oh yeah and the price is ludicrous….even though 99% of people will be buying on launch. This game is gonna sell like hotcakes.
Games haven't streamed from the disc in... I don't even know how long anymore. The game installs from the disc onto your console for the actual playing.
But the fact that the data is on disc means that I can install it now, or in five years, or in ten years, even after they may have shut down servers or removed it from stores making only the more expensive re release available, etc.
And games have released on multiple discs for decades when necessary.
I can also resell a physical disc. I can let my friend borrow my physical disc. I can continue to play my physical disc on a new account if mine is banned, corrupted, hacked, whatever. I cannot do those things with a redemption code.
It also means, you can install only needed data from the physical media, leaving the rest on the disk, saving SSD space, but the data is still on the disk if you need it later wtith out needing an Internet connection.
I am pretty sure that you need an online connections to Rockstars Server to install/activate the installation. Never ever they will let you install/play the Game if you can't connect to the servers. Otherwise you could, as you already said, duplicate the game. Rockstar will try to prevent this. So what's the difference between have the Files on a disk, vs. Download it from their servers if they could just flick the switch at any time and prevent you from starting the game.
I didn't say anything about game duplication. If Rockstar requires a phone home to play, then that is also shitty and don't support that either. But I'm not aware of if they do or not.
It's just a guess, but I think they'll tie the installation to your account, or remove the game from your account if you lend the disc to someone else.
Well, there is no disc for GTA 6. Only digital codes.
I understand what you’re saying, and yes hypothetically they could put the games on multiple discs to transfer over to your hard drive. But ignoring the manufacturing costs, you’re still limited to the read/write speeds of those disc drives. Transferring data from disc to hard drive is a little faster but not by much. Even if the game is at minimum 100GB, and assuming 30GB per disc hypothetically, that’s about 3 discs….it would take literal hours to transfer the game over to the console. Versus most people with decent internet simply downloading it directly, around 2-3 hours hypothetically. Sometimes even less than that if you have 800mb/s internet which is extremely common nowadays.
This wouldn’t be a big deal if the games were smaller in size, as history as shown. But they’re just too damn big now. And quite honestly from a consumer perspective I think the industry has shown nobody wants to go back to owning multiple discs/physical media for a single product. I’m old enough to remember needing multiple floppies to install certain games. I don’t miss that. Not to mention you HAVE to be there to babysit it so when the data finishes copying over, you have to remove the disc, put disc 2 in, etc. I don’t miss that, consumers have shown they don’t miss that.
So I understand the sentiment and I do miss owning physical media. I’m happy there is a movement going on for collecting. I myself have multiple 4k movies and media on disc. I wish more research would go into developing new technologies so we can bring that back. For gaming though, it’s just not viable with current technology.
Edit: Yes quad layer blueray exists but the manufacturing costs for that are ludicrous, they don’t sell well so there’s no insensitive, and regardless you’re limited to the abysmal speeds of optical media drives.
Quite a few consumers are showing in response to GTA 6 that they do in fact want a physical disc. Regardless of if they have to babysit its installation. A small tradeoff I am happy to make.
Also, PS5 discs can have up to 100GB on them, not 30. You're off by a factor of three.
Also, physical disc means no worrying about internets data caps.
I wasn’t arguing against physical media itself. Simply having to carry multiple discs for a single game. The MAJORITY of people don’t want that. And even on the subject of there being demand for a physical disc of GTA 6, you really think the flame wars on the internet represent the majority of consumers? History has shown time and time again the internet, or congregated groups like Reddit do not represent the vast majority of consumers. If this was such a huge problem in the industry, people wouldn’t continue to buy digital media, or continue to spend money on microtransactions.
You are correct that they have multi layer discs now to handle those storage constraints and that was my mistake, but the fact is that the read/write speeds are abysmal compared to flash storage. Modern AAA games are DESIGNED around them because of the large scale. Even hypothetically if you put GTA 6 on a quad layer disc the damn thing wouldn’t run due to having to stream high resolution assets on the fly in real time at sub 100 MB/s speeds.
I mean…..come on man. You can’t even argue against that. It’s just fact. We need a successor to optical media to accomplish that. We have nothing AFAIK.
Again, games haven't steamed from disc in years. AAA games are not hindered by disc speed. The disc is used to install the game, and then the game is played from drive as if you had downloaded it anyway. You seem to have a few misunderstanding regarding this tech.
I'm also definitely not claiming that our little corner of the internet is representative of consumers at large. Sorry that I gave off that impression.
However, I also think it's worth mentioning that what consumers at large want is frankly rarely relevant. Companies have been driving the trends, rather than the other way around, for a looooong time now. Like, before I was born.
No misunderstanding. My point stands that standard blueray discs on PS4/PS5 as an example do not use quad layer discs, and they’re too small to hold 80GB+ AAA media like most games are nowadays.
I completely understand the difference between streaming from disc and transferring to hard storage. Both are true at the same time. I haven’t seen a single, large AAA game transfer from disc to SSD this generation. Ever piece of physical AAA games I’ve owned from 2020 onward has had a code built into the box. I also haven’t seen a game stream from disc since late 7th generation.
If my arguments were all over the place and incoherent I apologize. I’m not good at debates. But to be clear I fully understand the difference.
All games, AAA or not, for the current gen install from disc onto internal drive. None stream from disc. I don't know what games you've bought from 2020 onwards, but Forbidden West is the only other major release I'm aware of that skipped the disc.
You said you haven't seen a game install from disc, but also that you haven't seen one stream from disc, so I'm genuinely unsure what you're trying to say anymore. And you're still wrong about how much data a PS5 disc can hold, which is up to 100GB on a triple (not quad) player ultra blu-ray disc.
Genuinely friend I think you are misinformed or confused about some things, or I just have no idea what you're trying to say.
BTW, two people disagreeing doesn't need to be a debate. We're just having a conversation. All is well my friend.
I get what you are saying, but games are not streamed from the discs anymore and haven't since the PS3/Xbox 360 days. They are installed to the SSD which then loads up the game as normal.
Single layer BDs are 25GB, but dual-layer BDs are 50GB and released simultaneously in 2006, 2010 introduced triple-layer discs with 100GB capacity, and we've had quadruple-layer discs at 125GB since 2018. I'm not sure I've ever even seen a single layer BD, to be honest.
Yes we have quad layer discs but they haven’t sold well, Sony AFAIK is the only manufacturer, and the manufacturing cost is ludicrous. And going back to my previous point, all of that is fucking meaningless when the read/write speeds are abysmal compared to flash memory storage which is required for most modern AAA titles.
Games haven't actually been played off of the disc in ages, though. The system typically just uses it for installation to the HDD or SSD and then as a key to allow the user to run the program.
The install for the 3 games I have on disk for my PS5 takes up less space than the digital versions show on the store, and you very much can hear when it's loading off the disk since the drive is super loud when it's not just spinning idle. Not to mention the load times are slightly longer.
It could just be the music, tho. The size difference is only a few GB.
As I understand it, game discs spin up to essentially read the disc which serves as a kinda of "key" to let the game launch. Not sure why it would be different install size from downloaded version, unless there's some patching differences for some reason.
Sometimes the key function works by keeping critical files on the disc and never installing them to the system. Might install the art assets but not the executable, for instance.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a game do that. I remember during the early 8th gen days they did indeed do that, but from what I recall that practice started to dissolve late that generation. Well after quad layer discs showed up. For standard size blue ray discs like what PS4 uses they’re just not big enough.