this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2026
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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago (33 children)

a kid got years in North Korean prison for stealing a poster

The full story of this kid was far crazier than the post implies. (https://archive.is/kyR8h)

Firstly, he wasn't in jail for years. He was in jail for 17 months, largely due to the chill relations between the Obama government and North Korea during that time. It is common for US expats to receive special release with a bit of glad handing and brown nosing from a US diplomat, and the fact that Bill Richardson wasn't able to secure Otto's release was the exception rather than the rule.

But secondly, and much more curiously, the story spun up after his release looked more and more like a fabrication the deeper journalists probed.

The previously unreported detail of when Otto was admitted to the Friendship Hospital changes the narrative of what could have happened to him. If Otto was “repeatedly beaten,” as the intel reports suggested, it would logically have been during the two to six weeks between his sentencing, when videos of him showed no signs of physical damage, and “April,” as the North Korean brain scan was dated. But Otto was apparently unconscious by the next morning. The coroner found no evidence of bludgeoning on Otto's body. And when one takes into account that the entire sourced public case that Otto was beaten derives from that single anonymous official who spoke to The New York Times, the theory begins to crack.

It is for this paucity of evidence that, though the public discourse about Otto's death has long been dominated by talk of beatings, there have been doubts among North Korea experts that the intelligence reports were correct. Of the dozen experts I spoke to, only a single one thought there was even a remote likelihood that he had been beaten. “I don't believe Otto was physically tortured,” Andrei Lankov said in his office in Seoul. “The campaign to make Otto a symbol of North Korea's cruelty was psychological preparation to justify military operations.”

Many experts pointed out that though North Korea is often portrayed as irrational, the Kim family had to be “both brutal and smart,” as Lankov said, to maintain its relative power on the world stage, especially for such a small, impoverished country. What incentive would they have to lose a valuable bargaining chip, especially when they had never been so thoughtless before? To these experts, it made much more sense that Otto was treated like all other detained Americans and that an unexpected catastrophe occurred. But despite the experts' doubts, none of them could disprove the intelligence reports indicating that Otto had been beaten. However, a senior-level American official who reviewed the reports told me, “In general, the intel reports were wrong, as the medical examinations have shown. They were apparently not even correct about where Otto was or when he was beaten, for God's sake. Likely, the reports were just hearsay. Someone heard third- or fourth-hand that Otto was sick, and that person decided he was beaten. The North Koreans have never tortured a white guy physically. Never.” The official said he did not know of the Trump administration having other sources of information about Otto being beaten.

So you had a US expat detained for an extended period, only to be released into US custody as an attempt by the NK government to curry favor with Trump. But in the process of being released, Otto falls into a vegetative state with no evidence of physical violence perpetrated against him. The poor state of his health is conveyed to the Trump administration and immediately poisons relations with the new administration.

And over the next several months, Trump begins to ratchet tensions with North Korea as a potential prelude to war.

How did this happen? Who did it benefit?

[–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago (22 children)

So a guy got imprisoned by the most brutal government in the world. And then he fell into vegetative state. But said government has nothing to do with the vegetative state?

Do people just do that? Do people just go "eh, I've had enough, maybe I'll just turn my brain off for a while".

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml 0 points 16 hours ago (21 children)

No, because the most brutal government in the world is the United States'.

[–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The United States is pretty bad, especially for being a supposedly rich country. But no, it's not the most brutal.

Even though I would not travel to the USA under any condition, if I have to choose between USA, north Korea, Iran, or some other random authoritarian country such as the UAE, Saudi Arabia, sudan or somalia, I'm going to USA. Even though I'm a non-gay male.

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

Go tell that to the black people living there that have been brutalized for generations. Or maybe to people living in countries that was destabilized by it. This pales in comparison to the contries you named, combined.

Hell, go see what they did in North Korea during the war.

Edit: And how could I forget. Go tell that to the indigenous

[–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

Yeah. Go tell that to the people/slaves of the countries I mentioned.

As I said, USA is no good, but it's not the worst.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of "worst".

"Bad" is absolute and can be judged with just the USA.

"Worst" is relative and you have to consider the other ones.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 6 hours ago

Maybe KSA, Qatar. Dubai, UAE, are as bad or worse, if you're poor. Not having resided or visited, it's pointless speculation.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

FYI, the person you're arguing with is from .ml, so good luck getting them to admit that the us is better than any other country, despite any and all available evidence to the contrary.

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml 0 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

You people are seriously disgusting. No wonder minorities don't feel safe in the Fediverse.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Oooh yay! My first encounter of the day with an unhinged ml idiot.

Tell me, brainiac, how does pointing out that you're on an instance known for denying basic reality to make arguments set in a fantasy land about how places like Saudi Arabia (who is actively enslaving people and working them to death to build their stupid mega-boondoggle) is worse than the US make minorities feel unsafe? Or are you mad because you can't actually support the assertion you're making with evidence sourced from someplace other than your ass?

Edit: you're just using minorities as a shield for your awful positions.

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml -2 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

Naw I'm just gonna show this convo to my brothers and sisters who have dealt with generations of trauma due to American policies lmfao this is crazy.

[–] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Why don't you let them speak for themselves?

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml -1 points 8 hours ago

Because they all have Lemmy accounts, of course?

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Because you can't support your stance, we know

Also, I hope you know the rest of us are disgusted at the way you choose to use minorities as a shield for the intellectually lazy arguments you peddle.

There's a reason why you won't answer the question, and we both know it

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 4 hours ago

When denial and projection protect privilege. A tale as old as time.

[–] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Brother you are cooked in your own juices. The fediverse is by far the most accepting and diverse large social platform I am aware of. And for somebody from ML to accuse the rest of us of being intolerant is a real hoot. Spin up a new profile on a less psychotic instance and people might be willing to engage with you.

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml -2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Whitewashing US crimes is very tolerant, apparently.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

So pointing out that other countries are worse than the USA is whitewashing the crimes of the USA? Don't hurt yourself moving those goalposts because you can't support your argument

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 11 hours ago

Literally, "you registered your account on the wrong instance so you're the devil".

There is no end to the bigotry in some people's brains.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 11 hours ago

You don’t seem to understand the meaning of “worst”.

The "Worst Country" is the country that the US Media tells us is the worst, as measured by US Think Tanks and US Epsionage Agencies and US Propaganda Mills.

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml -1 points 12 hours ago

And when you compared the atrocities comited, it doesn't even scale close to everything the US has done and is currently doing.

Also tell me who's the one that profits from the slavery in Saudi-Arabia and supports it fully?

You seriously think I just considered what the US did without comparing it to the other countries you mentioned?

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