this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2026
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The battery in the device you're hard disagreeing with me on was created by slave and child labor. You knew that and bought it anyway. I assume you still eat meat despite knowing the environmental impact. Are you brainwashed too then or does how you spend your money somehow not affect the world?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/036/647/Screen_Shot_2021-03-01_at_2.28.39_PM.jpg
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What slight improvement to society is being talked about here? I know you wanted to participate, but try adding something to the conversation instead of a misused meme.
you are dismissing talk of holding actual problems accountable, to focus on inconsequential individual accountability, specifically using the βbut you have are using an iphone, i am very smartβ argument to not actually have to argue a point. you have been consistently dishonest in your messaging and it shows.
Thanks for dismanteling his argumentation and putting it into context so well :)
"Thanks for supporting the opinion I already have because considering the alternative feels bad :)" - jafra
Inconsequential? How is our buying habits inconsequential? You can't hold a problem accountable...
because our buying habits are shaped by necessity and availability. to argue that the individual needs to change would require agreement to the degree of millions of people all at once, who have the privilege of choice make a substantial change, and even then the systems in place would defend itself from this change. in a discussion about needing to hold corporations and systems accountable, you argue for the responsibility of the individual, a concept that uses the most effort for the smallest gain, if any.
the concept of the free market is and has always been bull shit. the free market ideology requires the consumer to have: 1. maximal choice, 2. maximal and complete knowlege of every facet of a product (a. itβs ecological cost, b. itβs social cost, c. itβs manufacture, d. itβs transport, e. its storage, f. itβs operational harm ect. ) and every facet of every other option to compare. as well as truth in marketing which is antithetical to marketing itself.
in a discussion about the need to hold the system accountable, attempting to narrow it to the individual is a distraction to progress
purchases don't cause production.
This is literally the βwe live in a society, curiousβ meme.
So what then? You are here, clearly you are participating as well. There is no ethical consumption here. I doubt the rocks you're throwing are thrown from somewhere safe when they inevitably get thrown back.
The point is that it's your choice where to make sacrifices for the causes you believe in. Everybody already knows that fossil fuels cause pollution, this is not some big secret. People don't just get to hide behind "brainwashing" as a defense.
Yeah I think everyone gets that, but what then? We can acknowledge that the path of least resistance is destructive, while also acknowledging that some folks will be on that path through no fault of their own, and the rest of us are heavily incentivized to follow that path. It's far more efficient to try and fix the system routing the paths, than to individually change everyone's behavior en masse.
To clarify, I'm all for fossil fuel regulation. The fossil fuel industry is different from most in that it has huge externalities, and those can only be controlled via regulation (as explained by Tragedy of the Commons). However, what I'm saying is that personal responsibility is still important. In fact, in a democracy it's basically all that matters. Whether you vote for public policy or you vote with your wallet, both have the power to affect change.
Changing the system and rerouting the paths and forcing everybody to follow, sounds nice in theory. And in this case I do agree that some regulation is necessary. However changing the system can end up enormously good and also enormously bad. It has both incredible power and risk. The problem is that nobody agrees on how to change it. Every few years the group in power changes, and reverses the policies created by the opposing group. I am not confident that this is as efficient as you say it is.
What I don't like about resorting to regulation, is that it's all or nothing. The policy passes or it doesn't. The free market is much more flexible. If 20% of people vote with their wallet, that wouldn't have been enough to get a policy to pass, but it sure is enough to get an industry to re-think their strategy and try to re-capture that 20%.
It's not really a choice though. We have to work harder, longer, faster for a wage that doesn't increase anywhere as fast as the efficiency of the workers. We have no time to do things the old way. I literally sacrificed a week of vacation to set up my homelab because I want to reduce my dependency on techbro bullshit. In many countries everything is done via smartphones. It's near impossible to live without one. It wouldn't be so bad if techbros wouldn't come up with addiction driven software, but here we are.
And yes, many people are brainwashed into hating vegans. They are being controlled by the media they consume.
If our schools would teach the children his fucking bad all this tech is, we might stand a chance. But again, schools are controlled by rich assholes in power.
You just said that you sacrificed a week of vacation to reduce dependence on big tech. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Some people choose to spend effort on tech independence. Some people focus on veganism. Some people make sacrifices for the environment. Etc. These are all choices.
Not really. I'd rather not have had to go through that and instead I'd rather have relaxed during my vacation. In the past this would have been possible after work hours. Now I'm so fucking wasted after work, I prefer to mindlessly rewatch Deep Space 9. I just don't have the capacity to regain control of my life. Big tech is forcing their shit upon us all and it's very difficult to escape all that. The regular person will likely not have the know-how to do this, so they're stuck with what is being spoon fed to us all.
If people don't want to bother putting in the effort, that just means it didn't really matter much in the first place. It's easy to just vote on policies that sound nice. But people have to actually try to implement those changes in their own lives, to see the actual cost, and whether the result is worth it. If enough people do so, it signals to the rest of the world that yeah, maybe this is a worthwhile change to implement worldwide.
I live a very minimal life, often to my own determent. I do the best I can to lessen my impact and contribution to other's suffering.
I get more rocks thrown at me for speaking my mind on these types of topics because people absolutely hate the idea that they have more control in this awful system than they want to admit. It's worse now because more and more people are calling for change, but refuse to sacrifice their comforts to enact that change. They'll blame the system for making rent too high and fearing homelessness, but at the same time twiddle their thumbs while rent goes up and more people are forced into the homelessness they fear.
You want the people fight for the better. That's I think noble. But at the same time you argue against that the enemy is the government, and you put the blame on ordinary people instead. So you want people to fight themselves. I want people to fight the government. Law is the solution for many of these issues. E.g.: It's not big pollution vs small pollution, I'd like NO pollution.
I haven't said people are the problem; all I've said is we contribute to it more than people like to admit.
Battery was produced in South Korea. Can you substantiate your claim South Korea is employing slave and child labor? Ensure you have a source substantiating both
I find child labor unlikely, but plausible, but slave labor in South Korean battery factories? I doubt it