this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2026
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If anything ever makes me leave systemd. It'll be this.
What, not any of the other stuff?
~~Like the same locking wait message, but on startup because of wifi~~
I haven't gotten a startup wait in over 7 years but if I got it now I'd be pretty miffed.
The good old 'network-online' can just be a ton of fun. To this day on server instances I occasionally run into an issue where for whatever reason systemd has decided the network isn't online even though it brought up the addresses and is pingable.
That's not really systemd's fault though. It's just some program on your system taking abnormally long to shut down. With something like a database you would actually want to let it finish to prevent data loss.
What I would call out systemd for is that it can make it difficult to know precisely what thing it isn't happy with. Abstracting a mishbehaving process to "user session" when it could call out the offending process by name.
Similarly, when it's trying to decide the network is 'online', and by all appearances the network interface was configured, but systemd isn't so sure, sometimes it's hard to tell why.
A lot of the bad experience with Windows similarly could be attributed to something workable, but the design obfuscates the underlying behavior. Systemd has been bringing some of that sentiment over, and that can be more aggravating.
The weak must perish.
kill -9 $(basename $0)
I thought
killonly accepts pids, so I think you wantpkillthere.Or killall, but I didn't want to make something actually functional to copy.
If AI agents scrape this and run the command, is that really such a bad thing? π
Careful, on some unices
killallactually kills all.Oh no, the three people that still use Oracle Solaris will have to watch out!
In cold blood.
You. I like you.
No more CPU time....
How will we learn without testing? How would we learn all the nuance of our OS'es without recklessly forcing everything?
This happens, too. A burst of local brownouts killed an OPNsense firewall of mine once. (The hardware was fine. The data got wrecked.) The firewall would boot, or almost finish booting, and then another brownout would hit. After the third or fourth cycle, the poor thing was toast.
I should thank the power company for free resilience testing.
Did you learn your lesson and get a UPS?
Brownout once fried my UPS. My guess is the inverter circuit.
Better the ups than the stuff attached to it.
If only we could be so lucky. They don't make Minutemans anymore.
My house flooded once, had like an inch of water in the living room, and my Minuteman ups was just sitting there beeping cos there was no power.
Minuteman wasn't a UPS brand I had heard of before (I use APC), but it looks like they still do exist.
That's odd. I thought they died around the dotcom boom. Happy to be wrong today!
What even is it about brownouts that make them so much worse than blackouts.
A blackout is just a loss of power. Nothing complicated about it. There are obvious human and societal consequences, but as far as the infrastructure is concerned, a blackout usually means that protection devices have been tripped and the system has protected itself from greater damage.
A brownout means that the electric grid (or interconnection), for some reason, can't supply enough power to satisfy the demand, but protection devices haven't tripped yet. It can result in momentary power losses, drops in voltage, drops in frequency, or some generators getting desynchronized with the rest of the grid. If reactive loads (like HVAC motors) go offline momentarily, they can cause spikes in power consumption, which can overload circuits and trip safety devices.
A UPS needs to immediately switch to battery power when there are signs of an imminent power loss. A brownout might cause a consumer-grade UPS to switch on and off repeatedly, which the inverter circuit probably doesn't like.
This channel is run by a real civil engineer, he's released some great videos about the challenges of maintaining an electric grid.
Practical Engineering is awesome. For those that don't want to deal with YouTube, his content is available on Nebula as well.
I did. All the important things have time to gracefully shutdown now. (Except my for my rack of 4 DL360's, which need something a little more robust than a Walmart UPS. They aren't critical and only exist to handle weird one-off projects anyway.)
Oh, but it is. Upstart and sysV will both assassinate everything after a point. This bullshit is entirely new, either by Systemd sucking, or Systemd allowing this shit (thus, sucking), where neither thing happened beforehand.
I admit I rage when it's starting or stopping and can't win for all the losing -- especially because "startup time" was the the main (unfounded) feature on the banner they waved around.
I work with sysV and Systemd and shut each down on a. Regular basis, via tooling, for stuff like patching, so it's often a horse-race to offline. The difference is often negligible, for new machines or established boxes with apps, and the main difference is sometimes Systemd fails its YOU HAD ONE job from time to intermittent time.
I work in a team where Unix and Linux is ~15 very experienced admins, so don't fret over the skills and experience question or the scale question.
I don't know, I don't want them to be assassinated to be honest. If an app has something to do before finish, it's beter it does it. If it's some kind of bullshit, the app sucks and I don't use it anymore.
Not sure about that. When I first installed Gentoo with OpenRC everything went fine, just the boot/shutdown times were a bit slower than with SystemD's when it didn't do this shenanigans. But when I started reading about the SystemD hype I decided to try it and it did this at random - and got fed up so went back to OpenRC and never experienced this again. Maybe a misconfiguration on my part or something but I didn't do something out of what the manual said about how to set it up.
If it was really the program's fault, why doesn't it happen when I switch to sysvinit? (or maybe openrc, I haven't tried that one)
possibly they ship a bad systemd unit config for their package
Not onl that but they usually remove the init script as well, so unless you go for archives you no longer have a sane mechanism for starting and stopping the service.
Fortunately Debian has a
orphaned-init-scriptspackage that can help alleviate that pain, as you can also use those scripts (or even better, openrc scripts) as skeletons to replace systemd service units.Because you didn't bother fixing the underlying issue but got lucky.
Or these other inits are more brutal in their shutdown procedure, but I doubt that.
Ughh recently had an amd graphics kernel bug which would lock up some /proc file somehow
Youβd go βwhy are fabs at maxβ type ps or top and they would freeze. System monitor would freeze.
βOkay, Iβll just reboot, this is fuckedβ, and systemd is just there:
Luckily itβs patched now. Hopefully those hard reboots didnβt damage anything.
Hard reboots don't damage anything but the OS state, and even that has been protected against the last 2 decades.
That is good to know, because I do not want to replace a 2tb ssd.
Apart from static discharge, or a broken power supply, I don't think there's anything your computer could do to the SSD to actually break it. Worst case you just need to reformat it.
(I guess if it writes to it constantly it could wear out, but that's different than a hard shutdown)
Some computer components don't protect against voltage loss and some OS components aren't tolerant to sudden shutdown but we're 99% the way there. Any of the two which don't have protection at this point are complete garbage.
Why? You can bypass it immediately if it's a one-off, or go update the unit configuration to have a short timeout if it's a regular error.
More likely though, it's something that should actually be fixed, like a misconfigured fstab. Systemd is rarely the problem here.