BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it.

I find it disheartening when people talk out their ass on a subject they've only learned about from cultural osmosis, and they then think the pushback they receive is due to some doctrinal orthodoxy and not just because they're talking out of their ass. People aren't agreeing with your criticism because it is unfounded, not because it is criticism of China. If you posted something incorrect about the United States you'd likewise receive push back, and thats not because people here are nationalist democrats, but because that incorrect thing would likewise be unfounded.

You will see plenty of actual critique of China, especially its foreign policy, its trade with Israel, its actions during the sino-soviet split, it's failure to curtail liberals, the regressive views of some of the old guard when it comes to queer people, its drug laws, and Im sure a bunch of other things as well. You will also see spirited discussion about things like the "great firewall", state censorship, Dengism, and I dunno what else. The fact that things aren't reduced to some simple binary "good/bad" is why you see this. Because, you know, things aren't that simple.

[–] deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We agree but from my humble experiences the glazing of China is waaaaay more present on Lemmy than critique.

[–] BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

"Wow people generally seem to speak very positively of Brendan Fraser. This must be because he's secretly evil and they just wont admit it!"

Maybe there's a lot of positive talk about China and not a lot of critique because China, in general, does a whole lot of good and not a lot of bad.

Or because the users here don't exist separated from the world in which they exist. That world, for most of them, is one where every miniscule thing China has done (and hasnt done, as this thread shows) gets relentlessly critiqued in the mainstream all the time, so the users here might not feel a need to add to that.

Or, to be honest, since I feel like I've been a bit too hostile to you, there is also a bunch of lemmy/hexbear/lemmygrad/etc users who reflexively shout at anyone saying anything that goes against their beliefs, because every forum and instance has a massive issue with people assuming they are "the one true ideologue" so that means they don't have to investigate their own beliefs when they get challenged, instead it just means the challenger is a bad person - In the case of dumbasses speaking about bullshit they dont know and then doubling down that's true though. Or not "bad" but definitely "shitty".

[–] deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 15 hours ago

I think we agree - I don't feel attacked or that you are hostile. I'm not a complete anti China person. As I said, I'm very interested in Marx, Frankfurt School, Zizek, dialectics, "etc". But I will never glaze dictatorship, suspension of free speak etc. At work (high school who need more students to be sustainable) I'm "that guy" who often point out that on many accounts, we in the western countries aren't any better, probably worse, than China. Often comes up when the talk falls on surveillance. E.g. management don't allow promotion through TikTok but are all OK with Meta platforms. I have to explain that the meta platforms are probably worse offenders of privacy and surveillance. If it was up to me, we shouldn't use either of the platforms but management wants reach so can I understand why they use them - despite having no evidence or data that points towards their efforts actually create value/higher uptake of students.

I also agree with you on the reflexive shouting on what I would consider quite large communities.