Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, toxicity and dog-whistling are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !uspolitics@lemmy.world
7) No Hit-and-Run questions.
Please don't delete your post for no apparent reason. If you plan on deleting a question later, say so in the post, or if you feel that you have a good reason to remove it, message a mod beforehand. It's not fair to the ones who took their time to answer, and it's not in the spirit of the community.
8) No Bots.
Posts or comments from bots, LLM's, AIs, Neural Networks, Transformers, or Marvin the Paranoid Android are not welcome in AskLemmy. Real humans only please.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
I understand time signatures in theory, but not in practice. I comprehend what they are and what they mean, but they don't make sense to me. I don't understand what they do or why they're necessary.
Like I get it, the bottom number tells you how many beats are in a whole note. Most commonly 4, but sometimes 8 or something else.
The top number tells you how many beats are in a measure. In common time, that's again 4.
But mathematically, wouldn't that mean 3/4 time is the same as 6/8 time? They're equivalent as fractions. But when I ask a musician they don't explain it, they just tell me "No, they're different. That's 3/4, this is 6/8." And usually with this undertone like "Are you stupid? This is so obvious, what part are you not getting?"
From what I gather, 6/8 time is usually done in pairs of triplets. So it does sound rhythmically different than 3/4. But no one ever tells you that, not even when the concept is introduced in textbooks on music theory. They just tell you "and this is 6/8 time," as if you're just supposed to know how and why that's in any way different from 3/4 time...
I think it is too. I figured it out when I read that Jocko Homo is in 7/8 and it's very clear because of the staccato notes, 3 by guitar 4 by synth. Another way to think of it is the first beat is accented. So 4/4 is ONE two three four ONE two three four. 5/4 is ONE two three four five ONE two three four five.
I think a lot of musicians don't really fully understand it so they can't explain it. Kinda like how programmers can't really explain casting. And don't you programmers dare tell me about cows in a pasture or a barn or whatever that analogy is. Just translate your line of code with the word "cast" into a sentence that makes sense. You can't.
About Casting, at least in the granddaddy of programming languages, C, just meant interpreting the value of a variable as if it was a different kind of variable. Important detail is that variables are actually just memory locations and the number of bytes that conform it. So if you have a variable x of type string that holds the letter A, and a variable y also of type string with the letter B, if you do
x+y
You get 'AB'. But if you cast the variables like this:
(int)x + (int)y
You get 131
To put it in words as you asked, you are saying "please add the values located at memory locations x and y, but treat the values found there as if they were numbers, and not the ASCII codes for letters (which is what I had originally told you was there)".
It's been almost 30 years since the last time I actually used this, so I might be recalling something wrong.
Yeah a lot of ways to write it, and that’s part of it - depending on the tempo and phrasing it may be easier or harder to read the music in different time signatures, so there’s some flexibility. Like in 3/4 if you have phrasing that would carry a note from beat three across to beat one of the next bar, in a lot of places, that’s messier to write and read than if it’s e.g a quarter note within a 6/8 bar.
And a whole note is always the length of the bar, so in 6/8 a whole note isn’t eight beats, it’s six. The bottom number represents what length note counts as one beat - in 6/8 an 8th note is one beat (and there would be 6 8th notes per bar) a quarter note is two beats, a half note is three and a whole note is six.
I’m betting different composers had preferences as well.
You're confusing a bar with a measure. The measure is the smaller interval.
Also, the bottom number is how many beats are in a whole note. Because there are 8 beats in a whole note, that means an eighth note is one beat. A whole note is 8 beats in 6/8 time. Just like it's 4 beats in 3/4.
The top number is how many beats per measure. i.e., 6 eighth notes in 6/8 time; 3 quarter notes in 3/4 time.
Wait, so then what’s the difference between a bar and measure?!
I think I get it, so a whole note is 8 beats and there’s 6 to a measure, so the whole note carries on for two beats into the next measure, ya?
Yes, pretty much.
If a note is a letter and a measure is a word, then a bar is like a sentence. Typically 4 or more measures make up a bar, and they sometimes span more than one line. When you see a measure that ends with two vertical lines, that's the end of a bar.
This is why I prefer to use trackers instead of sheet music when possible. All I want to look at is what pitch the notes are and how long they are. I don't like key signatures either. It's better, for me, for each pitch to have its own space.
Songs are made from repeating patterns of beats and melody. The time signature tells you what that pattern looks like. If you just memorise all the notes I suppose it matters less. But if you wanted to improvise like with a guitar solo or whatever that's the rhythm you can use to improvise with.
It's the rhythm equivalent of the key/chord progression for the melody. If you know the chord and when/how it changes through a song, and you know the basic rhythm building block you can just make up notes that are guaranteed to sound great with the other instruments playing.
I took piano lessons for many years and I could sight-read sheet music ... sorta. As long as the notes were within the staves, I knew exactly what key to play. It was when notes were above and below the staves that I had to stop and count how many little lines were attached to each note to figure it out. Obviously that messed up my rhythm a bit lol.
I'm a programmer and I've spent thirty years writing music composition software and I never once even thought about incorporating traditional sheet music representation. It's just so clunky and poorly designed for the job. And when you start getting into microtones it's completely hopeless.
Played for over 20 years, aced my music theory final while I was still in school. Have minimal issues translating and coordinating with other musicians professionally.
Me too bud.
They say it’s about groove and feel but that’s highly subjective and falls apart the second polyrhythms get involved.
In the end, anything can technically be written in any time signature, imh It just comes down to what’s easiest (or most obnoxious/ gimmicky) to read / write.
I mean I get why you would want to use 3/4 time instead of 4/4 time. For instance if you're composing a waltz, you would want to use 3/4 time, because the rhythmic pattern repeats every 3 beats. Or for something like "da daa, da daa, da daa, da daa"
It's more convenient to use a time signature that aligns with the repeating rhythm. But that only requires the top number.
To me, the bottom number has always been utterly meaningless. Sure you can fit two triplets in a 6/8 measure as opposed to one triplet in 3/4, but you could compose the same thing in 3/4 and just use two measures for the motif instead of one, and make it a faster tempo, and suddenly it's played exactly the same way...
I am not a musician and there are MANY people that know MUCH more about music theory than me.
e.g. 6/8 time. 6 is how many beats are in a bar. 8 is how many bars. Why important? So we know when the music gets back to the start of the cycle... Kinda. There must be a beginning and an end. Why is No. of beats important? So we have an idea of the feel and how many notes roughly we can play within that. Why is 6/8 different to 3/4? Accents on a 3/4 the accent is typically on the 1 ² ³ 1 ² ³ and in a 6/8 the accent is going to mildly be on the 1 but more noticeable on the 4. Think MJ's "The Way You Make Me Feel". 6/8 has drive and the feeling of the accent on the UP beat.
Beyond this simplicity music is maths. Do you need to know the rules? No. Do whatever you want. But if you know the rules, you can exploit them; like musicians and composers do to create complex compositions and polyrhythms.
Hope this helps in any way.
It’s more 123 vs 123-456. In 3/4 the first of each triple is rhythmically always as strong, while in 6/8 the 1 is stronger than 4
No, the top number is beats per measure. The bottom number is how many beats are in a whole note. For example, in 6/8 time a whole note has 8 beats, making an eighth note one beat. As opposed to 3/4 time in which a quarter note is one beat.
But the exact same thing can be accomplished just by changing the tempo.
As for the accents, yeah, that's what I gather the only difference is. But it's never explicitly taught that way, and there's nothing hardcoded into the logic of time signatures that suggests it must be that way.
Yeah a lot of music notation has implicit/hidden elements that aren't ever really explained. A lot of things are done because someone "feels" like it should be that way, and no one questions it for whatever reason.
A non trivial amount of the reasoning is simplicity of reading and writing music. You could transpose everything to 4/4, but it would require a lot of weird patterns.