this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2026
978 points (98.4% liked)
Fuck Cars
16839 readers
1408 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't understand. Why don't people buy cheaper and/or second hand cars?
Why don’t poor people just buy more money?
The meme is overstating the price of a new car a bit, but the fact is that buying a used car can almost be just as much. You’re just paying for regular maintenance vs. a car payment
New cars need regular maintenance too.
The upside is you "know the history" and can reasonably assume that if you do the maintenance the car will last a reasonable time. And if not the warranty and laws (lemon law) gives you some way out.
Buying used you do not have the knowledge of maintenance, nor the lemon law protections, nor the warranty protections (third party warranties are pretty much scam). So you're relying on the gamble that the car you are buying will last, or you can make it last.
People with knowledge of vehicles and ability to repair have a leg up in that gamble, but it's still a gamble.
Around COVID, the used market went insane because the supply of new cars got fucked up. People really liked that their well-used car was getting a high price and now new sellers want a piece of that. Kinda like how someone is told their house is only going to sell for 2x what they paid instead of 3x and they throw a hissy-fit.
So used cars are also really expensive, which is…fun. Couple that with the insanely toxic car culture of the US and you get a perfect recipe of sellers over-pricing and people who are FAR too eager to pay those prices. Market pressure almost doesn’t exist because that would imply people actually have choices(to own a car) or willpower(to maintain what they have).
Used car market is kinda insane right now, even worse for trucks.
It's bad enough it's affecting bikes, but you can still get reliable used bikes for 2-5K.
Ultimately the used car market depends on people paying 50K for cars, the more people buy less reliable/cheaper or used cars, the more expensive it gets.
This is an insane thing to read as a dutch person
Motorbikes, I got my new commuter-style bicycle in the US for 600 USD in 2019, the same bike goes for 700 USD now. But you can't use a bicycle to commute in most of the US.
Motorcycle prices in the US are weird, new big bikes are similar to what the rest of the world pays, but small bikes, they only import the most expensive trims. I got my used cb150 verza here in vietnam for 700, new they go for 1400 plus ~600 for import and other fees. They sell a bike with the same engine for 4-5000 USD in the US.
The effect of this is that young people and people who just need a bike to get around town either have to pay 3x more than they would over here for the same thing, or more likely, they buy a 20 year old liter bike for the same price, or simply never realize there's an alternative to cars.
I live in the US and I want to start riding a Vespa-style scooter for my local errands. It's crazy how difficult this is, and I live in a suburb of a major city (Philadelphia). There are only two scooter shops within 50 miles or so, and their cheapest scooters are over $6000. Used scooters are virtually non-existent, and even if I found one, the scooter shops won't service anything you didn't buy there. I could buy one on Amazon for $800 plus $400 shipping but I'd have to service it myself and I feel like that would be taking my life in own hands. I'd like an electric scooter but that's virtually non-existent as well.
Then I watch videos from Vietnam and China and scooters are fucking everywhere.
As Kestrel said, motorcycles aren't that much harder to learn, though I started on a semi-automatic Honda Wave.
What they said about why they're more expensive isn't quite accurate; a new Honda Wave is 800-1200 USD out the door here in Vietnam. The Honda Grom has the same engine in America, a little bit nicer trim. It costs 4000, plus dealer fees. The scooter isn't more expensive to manufacture in America, they just know since nobody else is selling an 800 dollar scooter, by increasing prices, they can force anybody who wants a basic scooter to pay 5x more.
That said, scooters and smaller motorbikes are dead simple to work on. Scooters are a little more complicated since the CVT usually has its own oil system you have to change periodically, but still very easy to work on.
As far as utility goes, a light-weight motorcycle with a rack will carry anything a scooter will and can weigh just as little. I can fit 2 medium suitcases in the side-racks of my bike (they fold outwards), and a large one on top, or just tie as many grocery bags as I like to the rear rack, plus I can hang a couple sandwiches from 1 mirror and a couple coffees from the other when I want to go have lunch in a nice place.
Maintaining 65+ on a highway literally requires me to pin the throttle and sit in an aerodynamic tuck, if you want the capability to go long distances on highways without doing that, you probably want more than 12 HP. But it's a moot point in America because for the same price as a new 13 hp vespa or Honda ADV160 or more-than-only-technically-highway-capable Yamaha xmax, you can get a much more capable machine.
Be super careful about unknown name amazon scooters and bikes. Often they have lawnmower engines and pretty much the worst suspension you can imagine.
If you're thinking about looking for a used bike, make a thread in a motorcycle comm, I'm sure some lemmings would be happy to look at the deals in your area and make some recommendations.
Here's my current bike, it's carried me across SEA twice:
I'm sure you've thought of this, but maybe just get a motorcycle? They're not that much harder to ride than a Vespa, and while they're a bit more dangerous, most of the danger either way is getting hit by a car...
A lot of what made Vespa-type scooters historically pretty cheap was the 2-stroke motors, which are being phased out because they're unreliable and bad for the environment. But, they were cheap. Unfortunately, as you've discovered, the 4-stroke scooters are now much more expensive. And for whatever reason we're not importing a lot of electric scooters (tho where I live people love renting those Lime scooters, but you can't like, buy an equivalent vehicle).
Random thought that may not be helpful: When I lived in NYC there were lots of delivery guys with electric scooters. Maybe try to find out where they're getting them?
I just don't see any electric scooters around here anywhere. I kind of have my eye on this thing called an Aventura-X which is a vespa-style electric scooter that can go 35 mph ($3K) or 50 mph ($5K). I feel like that price kind of defeats the idea in the first place, and I still couldn't get it serviced anywhere.
I'm straight-up afraid of motorcycles; somehow the sit-down style of a vespa seems more accommodating. You're of course right about the danger of being hit, but I'm already an avid bicyclist so I assume I'm going to die that way anyway. I could just ride my bike everywhere, but of course that's slower and the logistics of getting a bike ready for a ride is the big pain in the ass.
omg they have a sidecar for dogs, that's hilarious. And swappable batteries? I kinda love these, TBH. But yeah gotta go with what you can get a local shop to work on. If you already ride bicycles, I'm sure you've considered the e-bike thing. I have too but they're also really expensive, the one I wanted ended up being like $8K and I was like bruh that's used car prices.
Shit, I know some people with bicycles that cost nearly $20K. Meanwhile I have a fleet of '90s hybrids that I paid $50 to $100 for on craigslist.
Some of the roads I drive on for local errands are 45 mph and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that on an e-bike.
Aaaaah okay yeah that makes more sense