this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2025
328 points (93.9% liked)

Ask Lemmy

34043 readers
1569 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] CaptSneeze@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Larry Ellison likes controlling Oracle and being a billionaire. Rather than selling stock of Oracle to fund his lifestyle, he instead borrows against the value of the stock. As Oracle appreciated, he got to keep the gains he doesn't trigger capital gains taxes.

I never really understood this. He still has to pay the loan, and he isn’t doing that with his symbolic $1/year salary. What part am I missing?

[–] untorquer@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Debt interest below investment yield means infinite money.

You're missing the taxes they aren't paying on the yield of the investment. That's only taxed when sold. So if you borrow against investments tied up in the market then it never triggers the tax.

Theoretically their estate would get taxed on the value resulting in a nice cascade of tax triggers but they're doing away with that asap.

[–] TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

You need to pay that loan with cash, right? I get that your assets secure the loan, but without another source of cash, how you pay back the loan and not sell your assets?

[–] untorquer@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Just keep borrowing and pay with that. Debt interest lower than yield.

[–] TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Can you provide an example? I'm not sure I get how that works out in their favor. In my view, paying debt with more debt is a terrible mistake and will get you in financial trouble. But I get that they have far more assets than I do. I just don't quite see where it doesn't go wrong.

Do they not have to pay the principle?

[–] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I borrow $1000, assuring you I can pay you back because I have $5000 worth of stock.

A few years later, I borrow $5000, assuring you I can pay you back because I have $10000 worth of stock (it’s not more stock, it’s just worth more now). I use that $5000 to pay off the $1000 debt plus interest, and then have some left over.

Few years later, I borrow $10000, assuring you I can pay you back because I have $50,000 worth of stock. I use that $10000 to pay off the $5000 debt plus interest and then have some leftover.

Repeat as necessary. The bank does eventually get their money (when you die or are for some reason forced to sell, paying off the debt with cash rather than promises). To the bank this is an investment. To you, it’s a way to get cash without having to actually sell your stocks, avoiding taxes, and letting your value continue to skyrocket.

[–] TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 1 points 53 minutes ago

Okay. Thanks. That makes sense.

I guess the cycle continues if you will the stock to your children. So it could be decades until anyone pays taxes.

And if the stock tanks, then I guess you declare bankruptcy.