Australia and the West have experienced, hand over fist, improvements in GDP and living standards since we moved our manufacturing and resource extraction overseas*.
Even as the working class got sold out**, living standards improved across the board. The rich got richer and so did the middle class - with most Australians joining the middle class, during and, since the post-war era.
We were getting a good deal on our imports, taking more from poorer countries (Global South) than we gave in return, but that has been coming to an end.
The Global North (the First World) has monopolised trade with the Global South, by Capital and demand but also coercion and regime change, which ensured a good deal. But with the rise of the BRIX and China's Belt and Road initiative, the Global South has more opportunity for equal exchange of goods and services.
While the IMF used third world debt to influence policy change, allowing Western Capital to buy up and exploit industry, Chinese banks are forgiving debts and negotiating mutually beneficial agreements (to the benefit of China).
While Western Capital built limited infrastructure to extract a specific resource, China is investing in not just general infrastructure but education and the creation of a local workforce.
The Global South are trading with each other. They have more options, trade is more competitive - we get less of a deal.
Where previously Australia could afford to give Corporations absurd profits and still have money for the people, this will be less and less possible. Australia needs to re-embrace the policies of the post-war era, which ensured a dignified life, and roll back the last 50 years of neoliberal policy built for an age which no longer exists.
* Not just in the neoliberal era, but all the way back to the start of colonial expansion.
** With manufacturing moving overseas and the denationalisation by various Liberal -and some Labor- governments.
*** consent manufacturing became harder to enforce
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49687-y
[2] https://ourworldindata.org/trade-and-globalization
[4] https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/10.1142/S2377740023500173
CC SA NC
The per capita drop is very much related to immigration, but the main point was that we’re expediting immigration-driven population growth just to keep overall gdp growth at any cost.
More and more immigrants are being brought in, having lots of kids, and working a bare minimum. Doing this lowers the per person gdp but increases total gdp - exactly like we’re seeing.
It’s not a coincidence that migration numbers are at all time highs at the exact same time that these gdp situations are unfolding. Immigration is being used to, among other things, keep total gdp growing so the government can say for amazing the economy is while it’s actual a complete shitshow - exactly like they’re doing.
What will get worse if we pause immigration for 5 years? Total GDP growth. That’s it. The housing market will improve (as in affordability and availability), inflation will slow. What will get worse?
Don’t give me any crap about us needing “skilled migrants” to keep our hospitals and building industries going either, cause we all know that’s a lie.
The per capita affects all aussies at all levels. Thats the problem. If it was just more poor immigrants, people would not be protesting. Immigration increases gdp, not reduces it.
Most immigrants that come are working age without kids. The pay taxes but get very little out from their taxes. Some choose to stay, if they can, and have kids, but if so, those kids are aussies, not immigrants.
It’s not crap about us needing skilled migrants for many industries. We don’t have all the skills we need. However, those skilled workers are also the ones earning more than average, paying more taxes and increasing per capita gdp.
If we turn off the immigrant tap, our education system collapses, as it’s now dependent on exports. Our hospital system is also understaffed and underfunded, so it worsens. Our inflation is generally seen to be under control currently, although it is at risk. Prices won’t drop if inflation drops, prices drop in a recession. That’s what we will have. A housing crash is not how you make housing affordable, look at Ireland, USA, Greece. They’ve all had one, their housing is not affordable, those that couldn’t afford houses when out priced can’t afford them when there is no bank willing to lend.
What will get worse? Our economy. It’s already in recession, except for immigration. So, we will go into actual recession. Those extra numbers propping up retail, gone. Those workers doing jobs aussies won’t, like farm work. Gone, food inflation, not easing.
We don’t need lower immigration numbers. We need services for the number of people entering. New schools, new roads, new hospitals, more public transport and more medium density housing.
So, don’t blame the immigrants, they are here from the policies of both sides of our political system. Blame the libs who didn’t want to,pay for those services and just wanted cheap labor,
I see you didn’t read my last paragraph.
Just here for accuracy, paragraph 3 addresses your last paragraph and matches your tone rather elegantly.
Me: Don't just regurgitate the old debunked lies
You: Regurgitates the old debunked lies
Also how can you say this:
right after saying this?
We only need new schools, new hospitals, new housing, etc because of our huge immigration numbers. If you pause immigration then we can let the countries infrastructure and housing catch up to a point where it's actually enough for the population we already have. Do you not understand how bringing in 1500 new immigrants per day when we already don't have enough houses etc only compounds the problem? We've brought in nearly 2 million immigrants in the last 2 years so by your logic all these issues should be fixed, shouldn't they? They're the ones we need to fix the problems aren't they? So why are the problems getting worse?
Where is that 2million number coming from?
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release
https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.723F2CQ
Racism, seemingly.
Are you trying to make the word “racism” lose all meaning to the point where it’s not even a thing anyone remotely cares about anymore? Cause that’s what you’re doing.
No one here is against immigration. If that’s what you’re getting from all of the recent talk and protests etc, you really misunderstood.
Right... calling your foolishness out in a Lemmy thread alongside everyone else hereabouts is really doing a number on the English language. Will someone please think of the dictionaries in lieu of calling out this racist POS?
You might want to look up the definition of "racist" again, because you clearly didn't understand it the first time.
I don't have a problem with immigrants, brown people, green people, yellow people, or any people. What we're talking about is the number of immigrants being let in during a time of a cost of living and housing crisis - that's it. Anything else is purely your imagination and trying to find racism where it doesn't exist.
You're blinkered by racist propaganda.
What have I said that is racist or “propaganda”?
Do you think that pausing immigration would help with the housing availability crisis? Yes or no?
Do you think adding 1500 people a day to the country affects housing availability and affordability?
Racist propaganda that is easily debunked.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics in the 12 months to June 2024, the net immigration number was 446k. That’s over 1200 people a day. They’ve increased migration since last June, so an increase to 1500 a day is easily possible. In fact from June 2023-2024 the ABS says the net migration figure was 536,000. Know how many a day that is? 1,468. So it was 1500 a day in 2023-2024 but it’s “racist propaganda” to say it is or could be 1500 a day in 2025?
“Easily debunked racist propaganda” 🤣
I mean you walked onto your own intellectual landmine there; the cognitive dissonance is now your row to hoe. Given that burden there is little surprise in watching you devolve to emojis like every other nervous boomer caught in a lie. Also the the phrase was "Racist propaganda that is easily debunked," but we're not allowing reading comprehension to get in our way now are we?
Did you not even read my comment?
The ABS, on their own website and documents, show that the net migration - not the OAD data - just 2 years ago was 1500 a day, and last year was 1200 a day. With how quickly this government has been trying to pack electorates with newly imported Labor voters it’s absolutely possible it’s back to 1500 per day.
So what is it - you believe the ABS or you don’t?
The ABS are saying “that number isn’t what you think it is” about number A, while number B which is what people think number A is is virtually identical.
You're including Nazi talking points after the previous comment warned you about sounding like a Nazi.
Nazi fuck, fuck off.
Dude when you call everything “Nazi” no one cares. Nothing I said is even remotely “nazi talking points”.
Also I have no idea what “warning” you’re talking about lol
it was the specific reference to established people not having as many children that is a common neo-nazi dog whistle, then you assert that immigrants are having 8 kids and living on government handouts. Anecdotally the only people I've ever seen having 8 kids and living of government handouts is Shazza down the road, true blue Aussie.
Ah so as expected, you just love using the buzzwords like "dogwhistle" and calling everyone you disagree with a "nazi". Facts are facts, "home grown" Australians aren't having as many children, and people from third world countries have more children due to things like lack of sex education, birth control access, and the need for more people to help/work. This isn't controversial in any way, nor is it an attack on them. It's just reality.
It is, however, an attack on our government who use these facts for their own agenda, which in this case is GDP growth and keeping the housing market booming at all costs.
Nowhere is really having that many kids. The planet is already at peak child and population worldwide will decline in the coming years.
Most home grown Aussies are the children or grandchildren of immigrants. This country is born of immigration. Fuck GDP figures and just sing the national anthem to yourself.
For those who've come across the seas, WE'VE BOUNDLESS PLAINS TO SHARE. With courage let us all combine to Advance Australia fair.
Ah this old chestnut lol. There's a difference between people that have been here for 2 hundred years, through generations and generations, who all speak english and live our way of life, vs an immigrant from india/random muslim country coming over now. The country being born of immigration doesn't mean that everyone is forever an immigrant.
On your pictures, do you notice any sort of coincidence about the places with the massively high numbers and the immigrants we're packing the country full of?
No there isn't a difference, and you're massively racist to see one. You didn't even include western countries to seem impartial, you just hate that brown people exist in your country. Tough cookies bud, they're here, they're richer and smarter and more valued by society than you. It also probably won't change in your favour.
Sigh.....
That's such a pathetic attack, and you clearly aren't smart enough to understand what people are actually talking about, nor do you even understand the immigrants that are currently coming in to australia. Grow up.
Ok, racist boomer.
I hope one day you’ll have a rare moment of self reflection where you’ll realise that you were part of the problem and reason why everyone turns against your ideologies because of your constant cries of “dats wacist!” at things that aren’t even remotely racist just because you want to virtue signal so hard.
Immigration is great. Black people, white people, brown people, yellow people, green people - who cares. What isn’t great is when our country can’t properly accomodate the people already here, but instead of turning the immigration tap down in order to let everything catch up and improve for everyone already here - including immigrants - we increase the immigration which objectively and 100% factually without doubt compounds the problems. You don’t fix increasing homelessness by bringing in more people. You don’t fix housing affordability and availability by putting more potential buyers and renters in the market.
You trying to paint people wanting homelessness, housing affordability, poverty, and cost of living, among other things, to get under control before we subject more people to it and make it even worse as “racism” just shows that you just want to virtue signal and be offended. It makes other people start to question your intelligence and opinion.
No, that's you. Racist fucking boomer that causes problems for everyone, and has no solutions
Keep going with the name calling and cries of racist, you're only hurting your own bizarre cause.
Fuck off. Racist boomer.
lol
I was born here but my ancestory is not. My family sides have been here post boer and korean wars. While 1 side spoke English before arriving, the other side had no English but still contributed to society in a meaningful way. By your logic, I'm one of these new wave immigrant children but I bet if you came to my pub you couldn't pick me out.
People migrate to Australia to give their kids a chance of a better future. This isn't people taking advantage of anything. These are families using services not different to any other resident. We all get childcare, healthcare, education, police, fire, etc, because generations before us decided it was the right thing for all Australians.
The sadest part is the longer a family resides in this country, the lazier each generation tends to get. Safety nets are a blessing and a curse.
You're completely missing the point. Like way off.
Immigration isn't bad. No one is saying that it is. Immigration built this country, as people like to say over and over.
The issue is that right now, we are importing far too many people into a crumbling economy in an effort to prop it up, and for other political reasons. We are in the middle of an extreme housing affordability and availability crisis, homelessness crisis, and cost of living crisis - the LAST thing we need is MORE PEOPLE. When we already have no housing, why are we bringing in 1500 more people per day?
No one is saying stop immigration FOREVER.
I agree, vast influxes of people can be detrimental for a time including putting a strain on housing. I also agree immigrants are being used to score polical points. Immigrants are not the cause of the house crisis, bad policy has brought us to this point.
The issues you have spoken about are not caused by immigration, sure immigration can put pressure issue or even make it worse but we should look at fixing the underlying issue rather than blaming people who weren't even in the country when the problem was created.
We can fix the system.
We can’t fix the underlying issue while we continue to make it exponentially worse though. Immigration didn’t cause the issue, but immigration is the main reason why it currently keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
Stop the flood of immigration, get things under control with the population we have, fix the underlying problems, then open up immigration again at a rate that is sustainable (and constantly re-evaluate this rate with regard to things like homelessness, per capita gdp, housing availability, etc).
Also, yes I agree there birthrate is higher in some parts of the world, particularly sub-Saharan Africa which has a large Muslim population. The number is dropping rapidly though.
If you are truly interested in the rates, look up Hans Rosling and his talks about the changes in childbirth rates, mortality, etc. He passed away several years ago but his research is still valid and is a great indication of which direction the planet is moving. Spoiler: life is improving on most metrics for everyone on the planet.
Stay positive my dude.