Europe
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: Al Mayadeen, brusselssignal:eu, citjourno:com, europesays:com, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox, GB News, geo-trends:eu, news-pravda:com, OAN, RT, sociable:co, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org
view the rest of the comments
We all know this, but it bears repeating.
I hope both EU politicians and the EU countries' politicians will recognize the full extent to which the USA is not our ally or even willing partner anymore. (Slow) efforts towards digital sovereignty have been there for a while, but the urgency has increased by orders of magnitude, yet many still follow the old playbook where the USA is our "friend".
As an American i feel that the US is not my ally either.
This isn't really about you though
right right, forgot to look at the sub before responding. Good luck ya'll
The as illegal judged Safety Shield was redone in 2022 as Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework
That's the same manipulative bullshit that was sold by the Brexiteers. Keeping rules aligned is in everyone's interest to make trade easy. The US wants to make it easy for its tech companies. Europe wants to make it easy for eg its car manufacturers. If you're aware of Dieselgate, then you know that Europe can't claim the moral high ground.
Of course, the internet is trickier in that regard in that we all share it, in a sense. You can see the problem in the current exchange between 4chan and the UK. The UK demands that the Americans at 4chan follow its own democratic rules, which is not what I'd call democratic. The UK will have to create a national firewall to police communications.
It is not tricky. You want to have business in one country, you follow the law of the country. You don't agree ? You exit the country.
It is as simple as that. And that is true also for the US tech giants
You feel that 4chan is in the UK. Can you explain how that feeling comes about?
I know 4chan is not in UK. Neverthless you need to follow the laws of the country you offer service to.
Being in US is not a free pass to not abide the UK's laws, if you want to have a presence in UK. As I said, you don't like them, do not offer the service.
To be clear: You are in good company with that attitude. Lawmakers seem to view things the same way as you. I'm just trying to learn more about how that view comes about.
Is not a problem with the lawmakers, it is to respect the law of the country in which you offer a "service". And it is valid also for web sites. Now, I suppose you would agree that Amazon US cannot sell me (in Italy) an item that was not legal here, like gun, am I correct ? Like we in EU cannot sell an item to US customers since it is not legal in US. Then depending on the item, there can be a US version and a EU version (think cars probably).
So, why a US site should not respect also the laws of the country the pages are visible ?
I completely agree that the UK's law is beyound stupid, but still, if you want to operate somehow in UK you need to follow it.
You can fight it, no doubt, and even violate it, if you are willing to accept the consequences, but here 4chan has simply a binary choice: follow it or block access from UK.
If you, being in Italy, caused an American to send a gun from the US to Italy, I believe Italy would prosecute you for gun smuggling. It would confiscate and possibly destroy the contraband. But I don't think they would try to prosecute the American. I've never heard of such a thing.
Do you think maybe feelings on such matters are changing?
I don't say smuggling, I said sell. And while guns are an extreme example, there are things that are legal in US and not in EU (and viceversa), liek some woodworking tools that were banned on safety concern, for example.
But the point is that Amazon US refuse to sell it to me in Italy since they know they cannot sell to me.
Nope, Italy would incrimate (or try to) both the seller and the buyer in case of smuggling.
I don't think I get the point. Amazon's branches in Europe are like any other European companies that happen to be owned by an American company. They own and operate warehouses, trucks, "lockers", and employ a lot of people.
I know that a lot of illegal goods are intercepted at the border. Products that fail to meet standards, even counterfeit brand name products, ... I've never heard about the EU trying to prosecute the sellers that mail these products.
True, and Amazon Italy have not on list items that are illegal in Italy, but you can also buy from other Amazon stores, I placed a couple of order on Amazon France, for example.
The point is that if I try to buy from Amazon US, the US branch of Amazon don't sell me items they know they cannot sell in Italy (or cannot be sent for whatever reason).
Because the seller know better than sell an illegal product, a seller know what can sell and where.
But be sure that if for some reason I order a book from Amazon US and somehow a gun is sent, obviously for some error, Italian authorities would ask both me and Amazon US what's going on. Then ok, both us and Amazon can demostrate it is an error and then nothing came out of this (if not that Amazon US maybe does not get the gun back).
I don’t want to argue, I just want to know. You feel it’s always been like that. And you feel that way because that’s been your experience with Amazon. Would you agree to that summary?
What is your intuition about the technological background? When someone sets up a website, what do they have to do or not do, so that it is visible in the UK, Italy, … ?
No, I had the same experience with every site that sell something. I cannot buy online a gun from San Marino from Italy. But I agree that not everyone respect that, for example from Aliexpress I bet I could buy something illegal in Italy (a laser over a given power for example) and face no consequences, but that because it is not really easy to persecute someone in China.
Technically speaking, you should restrict contents that is not legal in a country. I fully understand that it is way more difficult than not selling something, in the end if you sell something you have an address while with a website you simply have an IP address that could not be the real one (think VPN).
So yes, in this specific case 4chan is the asshole of the situation: it they want that their site to be visible from UK they should respect the UK laws, even if, as I said, the law is beyond stupid.
What does it mean to offer a service in country?
The pages are visible from a person navigating from UK.
Stole "Hadrian's Firewall" off another lemmy comment. Perfect, ain't it?
Brilliant.
What about the EU counterpart? How about "Atlantik Feuerwall"? The British tabloids would love it.
Fire limes has a nice ring to it.
Call it the Vestager - Line
Hmm. Reference not clear enough. I wouldn't have got it without the link. But I do like the idea of calling it the Maginot line of the internet.
E.U. ≠ Germany
Really? That's what you find inappropriate?
Yes? There’s a lot of other stuff I find inappropriate, but I guess the list would be way too long for one comment. Also I don’t disagree with the other things mentioned in this comment chain, if that makes you happy ❤️
The Atlantikwall was Nazi fortifications meant to repel the D-Day landings. I thought I would get some crap over that, but I do love dark humor. Your comment is just not what I expected, at all.
TIL 🤷 Thanks for clearing that up ❤️